What are the best uses for an ICP test and what should you not use it for?

Treefer32

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ICP tests saved me from losing all my corals. I've done two of them over the last 4 years. The first one was when I was using straight IO salt for my 340 gallon mixed reef. It had some rough starts. I had lost 16 fish due to circulating electricity in the display (over a 3 week period) most of the fish died in the sand bed, or in the rocks and without tearing things down I couldn't get them out. I replaced the bad heater and let the tank go fallow with one fish that survived. That was in my first year of running the tank. I went about 6-8 months without adding new fish. I had dinos growing in on the sand bed all over. I think that's what it was, thin strands of spaghettic all over. I hand pulled them in bunches.

I figured my nutrients bottomed out with one fish in 340 gallons. Over the course of time I slowly added more fish. Treating is a new tank. It was a year or so after that and up to 20 fish or so, when I started losing my stylaphora and birdsnest. The stylaphora had grown huge in that time. Probably 12" across. It was doing great, then suddenly branch by branch died. I took cuttings in an effort to save a branch at least. But even the cuttings died. So, I sent in for an ICP test, thinking that maybe copper or a screw or something toxic fell into the sump somehow. I'm really careful about that stuff, but I don't know maybe something did.

The ICP results were... Eye opening. The culprit was nothing more than the age old issue of nutrients. All of the major elements were 0 or undetectable (other than what should be there) My trace elements were undetectable as well - a whole other issue.

My phosphates were .56. I ordered a ULR PHosphate Hana tester then, and tested a week later and phosphates had climbed to .66.

I was starting to lose my massive chalice in that time too. Flesh just started pealing off it. I started dosing phosphate -e (Lanthinum Chloride) starting out with extremely small doses. And each week upped the ml per day to two to three times a day. After 3 months My phosphates dropped down to .1 and my chalice had grown back new flesh and thrived again and the rest of my corals looked so much better. I didn't know they could look that good!

My stylpora and birds nest were both lost. But the rest thrived once I got it under control. Then, I made some changes and continued to monitor, with the goal of stopping dosing phosphate-e. I upped my ATS to running 24 /7 (had been shutting the lights off for 8 hours a day.). I continued doing larger water changes for another 3-4 months to get the phosphates out of the rocks and/or sand bed. I switched to reef crystals salt.

I continued monitoring. Now, my phosphates are stable between .04 to .08 and I only test once every other week. No Phosphate -e. I did switch to dosing trace elements and am dosing vodka as now as well. Converted my cannister water polisher to a denitrator with matrix rock. And upped my vodka dosing to control nitrates as well as phosphates.

I did another ICP test about a year apart. And all trace elements were well within where I needed them and my phosphates came back within a margin of error of my Hanna checker. confirming I was doing right!

If I had continued oblivious of my phosphates I would have lost many more corals. I didn't believe in the test kits, jaded by the color tests I had done previously which are ridiculously inaccurate to try to determine shades of pink and green. I thought my phosphates were a little high at .12 to .16. Not .66.....
 

TheDragonsReef

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I mainly do it to make sure none of my pumps have been corroding, or when corals are acting up while my normal tests are fine to make sure nothing got into the water that should be.
 

Treefer32

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Another question around ICP testing. I'm dosing trace elements (Using all for reef now - was using Red Sea Trace elements, A, B, C, D). I wanted to up manganese to try to create the best growing water conditions for gonipora and alveopora. Both ICP tests I've done show Manganese low or at 0. Red Sea Trace element (C I believe) shows manganese as one of the elements included, but it's always accomponied with iron, and my iron levels were slightly elevated.

Is there a way to dose just manganese. I nearly failed advanced chemistry in high school, (many years ago) and make no attempt to understand how the ions relate. But is manganese something that can be dosed or does it need iron or something else to bind with to be dosed?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Another question around ICP testing. I'm dosing trace elements (Using all for reef now - was using Red Sea Trace elements, A, B, C, D). I wanted to up manganese to try to create the best growing water conditions for gonipora and alveopora. Both ICP tests I've done show Manganese low or at 0. Red Sea Trace element (C I believe) shows manganese as one of the elements included, but it's always accomponied with iron, and my iron levels were slightly elevated.

Is there a way to dose just manganese. I nearly failed advanced chemistry in high school, (many years ago) and make no attempt to understand how the ions relate. But is manganese something that can be dosed or does it need iron or something else to bind with to be dosed?

Dosing manganese alone is a fine plan. If you are a diy type you can make your own, or get one from one of the supplement companies such as Triton or ATI or Reef Moonshiner.
 

ScottB

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Scott, can you expound on why not to trust the Phosphate results that some ICP testers also do.
@Dan_P can back up my experience with empirical evidence in one of his cool threads here. I will look for it.

IME though, Triton, ATI and ICP Analysis.com all come back WAY low relative to my Hanna. Consistently and materially. Generally less than half of what Hanna says.

IIRC, Dan's thinking was that it was some combination of bacterial consumption or bacterial film inside the tube "fixing" the phosphorus to the sample tube walls while in transit.
 

Rick Mathew

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@Dan_P can back up my experience with empirical evidence in one of his cool threads here. I will look for it.

IME though, Triton, ATI and ICP Analysis.com all come back WAY low relative to my Hanna. Consistently and materially. Generally less than half of what Hanna says.

IIRC, Dan's thinking was that it was some combination of bacterial consumption or bacterial film inside the tube "fixing" the phosphorus to the sample tube walls while in transit.
Here is a study you might be referring to ... https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/sample-storage-and-its-impact-on-measurement-results-part-3.800/
 

Garf

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@Dan_P can back up my experience with empirical evidence in one of his cool threads here. I will look for it.

IME though, Triton, ATI and ICP Analysis.com all come back WAY low relative to my Hanna. Consistently and materially. Generally less than half of what Hanna says.

IIRC, Dan's thinking was that it was some combination of bacterial consumption or bacterial film inside the tube "fixing" the phosphorus to the sample tube walls while in transit.
But wouldn’t that effect lots of other elements also, not just Phos? Would render the test pretty pointless, I would have thought. Dunno
 

Rick Mathew

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But wouldn’t that effect lots of other elements also, not just Phos? Would render the test pretty pointless, I would have thought. Dunno
You bring up a vary good question. Actually there are other elements at can be effected by this process. Notably Iron, Iodine and to some extent Silica ...We did some exploring of this question you can find the posting link above #46. This the the third in a series of posts...you can find the other posts in the links in the third post.

We (@Dan_P & @taricha) are also working on and other aspect of the issue of ICP measurement results and that is the accuracy , precision and validity of the measurement. We have a very large data set we are currently working through. It is not a completely comprehensive experimental set but it should help to better interpreted the measurement results we get from ICP vendors....Working on it
 

ScottB

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You bring up a vary good question. Actually there are other elements at can be effected by this process. Notably Iron, Iodine and to some extent Silica ...We did some exploring of this question you can find the posting link above #46. This the the third in a series of posts...you can find the other posts in the links in the third post.

We (@Dan_P & @taricha) are also working on and other aspect of the issue of ICP measurement results and that is the accuracy , precision and validity of the measurement. We have a very large data set we are currently working through. It is not a completely comprehensive experimental set but it should help to better interpreted the measurement results we get from ICP vendors....Working on it
Valuable work. The community appreciates the effort.
 

210 Reef Tank

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I have been using the Triton ICP water test kits for about a year and a half. I have sent samples in every 2 months. It gives me that piece of mind knowing that my water is where it needs to be and if I am a bit short in an area the detailed report tells me what I need to add to get me back on track and what trace elements need to be added weekly to keep me on track until the next 2 months are up. For the investment I have in my reef tank it's a no brainers for me.
 

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