What are the chances of pairing an orang and black Ocellaris clowns?

[Ulm_nano_diybudgetreef]

Hi all,

I've got an orange Ocellaris that has killed a smaller black one in 2 weeks (introduced to the tank together). 4 days after death I added another black one same size and that lasted 4 weeks.

I've had various opinions on the circumstances which are as follows:
- it's just an evil Ocellaris and to replace and start again with new ones.
- add a smaller one
- black and orange dont pair (yet designer Ocellaris exist)
- LFS suggested add a larger one and have an iso box on hand for the aggression offender.
- research says they dont turn female or reach sexual maturity till 1.5-2yo, but does not comment on being alone and its effects on a premature sex change.

Looking for a consensus on the above info and if theres any expert members on the topic that can be tagged on the thread.

 

[laverda]

Yes a they can pair up. I have a breeding pair for many years.
My guess is your surviving clown is a female already from what you have described. Never add a larger or equal sized clowns unless very small. With equal sized clowns it is too likely you will get 2 of the same sex. Then they will almost for sure kill each other, especially if both are females. I would definitely say you should add a notciably smaller one. Even then I would separate them physically some how for a while. I have used egg crate until the female stopped charging the devided and started hanging out close to the younger clown. Females are very territorial even with a male or a younger sexless clown. In my experience a male clown can change into a female very quickly in the absence of a female.

 

[codycolina707]

Hi all,

I've got an orange Ocellaris that has killed a smaller black one in 2 weeks (introduced to the tank together). 4 days after death I added another black one same size and that lasted 4 weeks.

I've had various opinions on the circumstances which are as follows:
- it's just an evil Ocellaris and to replace and start again with new ones.
- add a smaller one
- black and orange dont pair (yet designer Ocellaris exist)
- LFS suggested add a larger one and have an iso box on hand for the aggression offender.
- research says they dont turn female or reach sexual maturity till 1.5-2yo, but does not comment on being alone and its effects on a premature sex change.

Looking for a consensus on the above info and if theres any expert members on the topic that can be tagged on the thread.

i'd say get rid of it and get 2 small ones or a already paired couple i've had 2 females jump from my tank months apart and just added a small male with what i knew was a another male and had no problems even with current two i have ones a plain occellaris and others a fancy white percula no problems with them pairing up even let it in the anemone on the first day

 

[Ulm_nano_diybudgetreef]

Yes a they can pair up. I have a breeding pair for many years.
My guess is your surviving clown is a female already from what you have described. Never add a larger or equal sized clowns unless very small. With equal sized clowns it is too likely you will get 2 of the same sex. Then they will almost for sure kill each other, especially if both are females. I would definitely say you should add a notciably smaller one. Even then I would separate them physically some how for a while. I have used egg crate until the female stopped charging the devided and started hanging out close to the younger clown. Females are very territorial even with a male or a younger sexless clown. In my experience a male clown can change into a female very quickly in the absence of a female.

i'd say get rid of it and get 2 small ones or a already paired couple i've had 2 females jump from my tank months apart and just added a small male with what i knew was a another male and had no problems even with current two i have ones a plain occellaris and others a fancy white percula no problems with them pairing up even let it in the anemone on the first day

The currently surviving orange clown is approx 1.5inch. Bought as a juvenile 6 weeks ago.

Was alone in the tank for 4 days between the 1st and 2nd black one. And now alone for 5 days since the 2nd black one died. Bicolour blenny was added about 2 weeks ago. No other fish atm

You think it has turned female already, based on size and guessing approx age of 6-8 months?

 

[Ulm_nano_diybudgetreef]

@Tankkeepers

 

[mort]

It's unusual for a ocellaris to kill another clown unless it's a very mature female. What makes you sure that it killed the other? Sometimes pairing can be really rough, they lock jaws and split fins but generally no real damage is done.
By the looks of the orange clown it is young and it would surprise me if it was completely to blame tbh. You should be able to pair it and by getting a smaller b&w should work, using a acclimation box if possible.

But if your convinced the one you have now is the problem it would be much easier to just swap her out and try again with a young pair.

 

[Ulm_nano_diybudgetreef]

It's unusual for a ocellaris to kill another clown unless it's a very mature female. What makes you sure that it killed the other? Sometimes pairing can be really rough, they lock jaws and split fins but generally no real damage is done.
By the looks of the orange clown it is young and it would surprise me if it was completely to blame tbh. You should be able to pair it and by getting a smaller b&w should work, using a acclimation box if possible.

But if your convinced the one you have now is the problem it would be much easier to just swap her out and try again with a young pair.

I'd love to think that it's not the problem, but a number of ppl have pointed to that, so I've been inclined to accept their judgement, as I dont know any better being my first marine tank.

The first b&w I found dead in the substrate, the 2nd b&w I found stuck to the power head intake grill. Both healthy, actively swimming and fiercely eating. !?!?!?

 

[Tankkeepers]

The currently surviving orange clown is approx 1.5inch. Bought as a juvenile 6 weeks ago.

Was alone in the tank for 4 days between the 1st and 2nd black one. And now alone for 5 days since the 2nd black one died. Bicolour blenny was added about 2 weeks ago. No other fish atm

You think it has turned female already, based on size and guessing approx age of 6-8 months?

It could of it could also be older then you think it is and became a female before you even got it in my experiences its always better to add a much smaller young clown when adding a new one so you know for a fact you are not getting 2 females as they can become a female within 6 months of being born at least thats what the breeder informed me when I was asking him questions as to how to add 2 clowns and this guys been breeding them for over 10 years so I trust him

 

[Tankkeepers]

I still say its the nitrates if they really are 25 as thats really high you should aim no higher then 5 and fish dont do well going from low to high as it'll kill their livers not saying they wont live in high nitrate water just gine but aclimating them from low to high is the problem as it has to be done over weeks not hours to be safe the liver has to catch up and increase the waste prossesing naturally otherwise it shuts down from being iverloaded to fast think of it like this a someone who drinks everyday liver can lrosses the alcahol much better then if a difrent person who does not drink every day try to drink the same amount leading to liver toxicity and failer in short term bad explanation but hope u get what I'm trying to say

 

[Silly clownfish]

I have had my orange (no designer) clown as the only clown in the tank since 1998, so she was alone for over 21 years. Definitely mature and female. anout a month ago I added a very small (.05-.075”) black and white ocellaris. I started him in an acclimation box for a few days and no one in the tank seemed to notice him. Once released in the tank, within half an hour, her and my older clown became inseparable.

 

[Tankkeepers]

I have had my orange (no designer) clown as the only clown in the tank since 1998, so she was alone for over 21 years. Definitely mature and female. anout a month ago I added a very small (.05-.075”) black and white ocellaris. I started him in an acclimation box for a few days and no one in the tank seemed to notice him. Once released in the tank, within half an hour, her and my older clown became inseparable.

If she is really that old I would not count on her breeding as they are only soposed to live to be 20 and once past her prime things stop working

 

[mort]

If she is really that old I would not count on her breeding as they are only soposed to live to be 20 and once past her prime things stop working

Clowns can live well past 20 years (well designer ones might not but purebred definitely can make 30 years) and continue to breed well into old age.

I had customer with a 25 year old female who's partner died and with a couple of days of adding a new male, they were breeding again and do so till this day 6 years later.

 

[mort]

I'd love to think that it's not the problem, but a number of ppl have pointed to that, so I've been inclined to accept their judgement, as I dont know any better being my first marine tank.

The first b&w I found dead in the substrate, the 2nd b&w I found stuck to the power head intake grill. Both healthy, actively swimming and fiercely eating. !?!?!?

I personally believe if the other clown killed it you would see evidence of this on the body. You would have split fins at the least and bite marks. So personally I'd consider other reasons for the death unless you saw the clown relentlessly bullying the other.
Sometimes comercially grown clowns aren't always the hardiest if they have been mixed at the wholesaler or lfs. You may have been unlucky and got a weak fish or it might have picked something up but I'd be inclined to reserve the one you want at a lfs and let them keep it for a couple of weeks to make sure it's healthy. Clowns are generally trouble free if you get a good one so I think you've just been unlucky.

 

[Fishyfish22]

Also is it possible you're pairing a true percula and an occelaris?

 

[Casket_Case]

Hi all,

I've got an orange Ocellaris that has killed a smaller black one in 2 weeks (introduced to the tank together). 4 days after death I added another black one same size and that lasted 4 weeks.

I've had various opinions on the circumstances which are as follows:
- it's just an evil Ocellaris and to replace and start again with new ones.
- add a smaller one
- black and orange dont pair (yet designer Ocellaris exist)
- LFS suggested add a larger one and have an iso box on hand for the aggression offender.
- research says they dont turn female or reach sexual maturity till 1.5-2yo, but does not comment on being alone and its effects on a premature sex change.

Looking for a consensus on the above info and if theres any expert members on the topic that can be tagged on the thread.

It’s an evil ocellaris XD

 

[mort]

Also is it possible you're pairing a true percula and an occelaris?

That wouldn't really make much difference as they are regularly crossed bred and near identical aggression wise. From the picture posted above the orange is a ocellaris and so is the black and white variant.

 

[Ulm_nano_diybudgetreef]

Also is it possible you're pairing a true percula and an occelaris?

I dont see any orange in the eyes, but have not counted the dorcel fin spines. Pics below just to make sure. I would also assume there would be a distinctive price difference between the 2. Other than that its ver rare to see percula advertised or sold in Aus.

It's something I havent thought of, so thanks for raising it. I would seriously get out of the hobby for doing something so stupid... lol

 

[JasonK84]

They can definitely pair. Are you sure the clown is dying from the other clown and not some parasite or other ailment?

 

[Ulm_nano_diybudgetreef]

I personally believe if the other clown killed it you would see evidence of this on the body. You would have split fins at the least and bite marks. So personally I'd consider other reasons for the death unless you saw the clown relentlessly bullying the other.
Sometimes comercially grown clowns aren't always the hardiest if they have been mixed at the wholesaler or lfs. You may have been unlucky and got a weak fish or it might have picked something up but I'd be inclined to reserve the one you want at a lfs and let them keep it for a couple of weeks to make sure it's healthy. Clowns are generally trouble free if you get a good one so I think you've just been unlucky.

The 2nd b&w stated being chased and bitten Fins during the last week. I didnt want to isolate it, as I thought they were resolving their domination issues. But no agression or chasing during feeding and the b&w was the bigger eater.

When I found it stuck to the power head in the morning and switched it off, the orange clown kept going trying to wake it up... very sad to watch

 

[Ulm_nano_diybudgetreef]

They can definitely pair. Are you sure the clown is dying from the other clown and not some parasite or other ailment?

Yes, very healthy, vibrant, eating and swiming actively all day.

I honestly thought it slept near the power head and got sucked in. But everyone says they are strong swimmers, could that be a possibility?