What are your thoughts on PNS Probio?

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pygo1

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I recently grabbed my first bottle, it's too soon to notice any concrete results, but I feel like it's doing *something*.

My nutrients were getting high, GHA taking over, and generally dirty looking water.

Since beginning the treatment a week ago, my tank looks somewhat clearer, but not majorly. I haven't tested phos in a few days, but it was on the downtrend last I checked. My GHA is still there and still growing, but it definitely seems to have lost some vigor. It was a deep green and held on tight. Now it looks like it's a duller brownish-green and is not growing so fast.

I've seeded my sand bed, rocks, and filter media with the stuff. Since doing so, I have noticed the cyano in the deep section of my sand has been replaced with a purplish-red film and my one problematic rock has also turned the same reddish color, so I can see where the bacteria has colonized in some areas which is cool. Whether or not it does the job for nutrient export remains to be seen, but i do think it's a fascinating product.
 
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Chris Spaulding

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I love the stuff. I use 4 oz every other day between 3 tanks ,2 60 gallon systems and a 160 gallon system. I only need to scraped the glass once a week twice at the most. Helps keep PO4 low all 3 tanks @ about .04 -.06 ppm.
I use the home grow kits and produce 2.5 gallons at a times. Here is a shot of the growing system.
646FC081-1DFF-42CF-9980-3E9247BAD606.jpeg
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You are growing your own pns probio? How?
https://www.hydrospace.store I buy it direct from him it’s about $140 and will grow 2.5 gallons takes 30 days to grow but is EASY. So it makes 20 16 oz bottles. Buy just one bottle for what $32.00. That’s $640 so the home grow kit saves me $500 each time . I have just started my 4th kit. My tank and corals love it as so I .
80180408-2B31-4708-92C7-BC80DD4B5203.jpeg
 
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Susan Edwards

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How do you grow it? Like phyto? If you can, explain how you are set up. I didn't see any places on his website to purchase. Is there a kit? Or just 1 bottle to start? Can you use this with RS's AB+? I dose that and the RS Trace colors
 

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I've never heard a negative thing about it on here which seems pretty rare for anything in this hobby.
I've also never heard anything particularly positive - no one can say for sure what it did, other than ~vibes~

I say that as someone who also used the product. It didn't do anything bad, maybe positive? but it's not easy to tell it really did something.
 

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I've also never heard anything particularly positive - no one can say for sure what it did, other than ~vibes~

I say that as someone who also used the product. It didn't do anything bad, maybe positive? but it's not easy to tell it really did something.


I've definitely heard some positive things on here. I used it but didn't test anything in the mean time so I can't give a before and after on much. I added it after using UV and having dinos go away.
 
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Chris Spaulding

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How do you grow it? Like phyto? If you can, explain how you are set up. I didn't see any places on his website to purchase. Is there a kit? Or just 1 bottle to start? Can you use this with RS's AB+? I dose that and the RS Trace colors
It took me a little bit to find the store link for some reason here is the link Quick View . Yes it is a lot like growing phytoplankton but easier. It takes a little time to set up but is easy the directions are easy to follow. For light source I use a 60 to 75 watt incandescent light build this provides the light and the heat needed to grow the bacteria.Some people use a heat mat and LED lamps.

Pour 1 cup household bleach into culture vessel and cap
Pour 1 cup Hot tap water into vessel cap and then Shake
Uncap vessel and completely pour out bleach water DO NOT RINSE the recap immediately

Bring 2.5 gallons of distilled water to a boil. I use RODI and he told me that was just fineI also add a little extra water to compensate for evaporation
Sterilize Mixing Spoon ,Thermometer and Funnel using peroxide and place on sterile surface
Add growth median to boiling water (white powder) and store in with sterilized spoon
Cut heat to pot and let cool dow to 74 C / 165 F and pour into culture vessel using funnel keep cap on sterile surface
then Cap immediately
Let vessel cool to room temp ( in my experience this takes some time almost a full day as the culture vessel seams to hold the heat)
Once vessel is room temp add the inocuilum (Bactria) and recap with sterile spigot.
Place light under continuous WHITE light ( This is where I use the incandescent lightbulb and it works for me . Others use LED)
The Bactria grows better with heat so some using LED light use a seed starter heating pad this is where I use the incandescent bulb. Next batch that I start next week I will do the same heat pad and LED bulb.
Takes 30 days and the you can use. I shake the container every time I use to mix up the Bactria.

Doing the home grow will save you a lot of money in the Lon run as to buying the bottles individually .
I understand that the shelf life is a year.

Here is a video of them doing the home grow kit . These guys are a bit eccentric but give a good over view
 

Susan Edwards

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It took me a little bit to find the store link for some reason here is the link Quick View . Yes it is a lot like growing phytoplankton but easier. It takes a little time to set up but is easy the directions are easy to follow. For light source I use a 60 to 75 watt incandescent light build this provides the light and the heat needed to grow the bacteria.Some people use a heat mat and LED lamps.

Pour 1 cup household bleach into culture vessel and cap
Pour 1 cup Hot tap water into vessel cap and then Shake
Uncap vessel and completely pour out bleach water DO NOT RINSE the recap immediately

Bring 2.5 gallons of distilled water to a boil. I use RODI and he told me that was just fineI also add a little extra water to compensate for evaporation
Sterilize Mixing Spoon ,Thermometer and Funnel using peroxide and place on sterile surface
Add growth median to boiling water (white powder) and store in with sterilized spoon
Cut heat to pot and let cool dow to 74 C / 165 F and pour into culture vessel using funnel keep cap on sterile surface
then Cap immediately
Let vessel cool to room temp ( in my experience this takes some time almost a full day as the culture vessel seams to hold the heat)
Once vessel is room temp add the inocuilum (Bactria) and recap with sterile spigot.
Place light under continuous WHITE light ( This is where I use the incandescent lightbulb and it works for me . Others use LED)
The Bactria grows better with heat so some using LED light use a seed starter heating pad this is where I use the incandescent bulb. Next batch that I start next week I will do the same heat pad and LED bulb.
Takes 30 days and the you can use. I shake the container every time I use to mix up the Bactria.

Doing the home grow will save you a lot of money in the Lon run as to buying the bottles individually .
I understand that the shelf life is a year.

Here is a video of them doing the home grow kit . These guys are a bit eccentric but give a good over view
thanks
 
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pygo1

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I've never heard a negative thing about it on here which seems pretty rare for anything in this hobby.
Very true! Haha.. it’s seems like my glass is staying cleaner for longer, which is a plus. I usually get some thick, tough film algae that needs some serious scraping. Even the side walls, which I do not scrape, are looking much clearer now.
I’m still waiting and wishing to see if it gets rid of GHA over time, but for now I’ll have to keep up on the manual removal.
I’m also up very early for work, well before lights on, and I’ve noticed some crazy polyp extension from my corals trying to feed at night. My acros are coloring up a bit more and my scoly being rehabbed from another tank is coloring back up as well.

I can’t give PNS all the credit, since I’ve changed up my filtration and dosing recently too, but I definitely think it’s making some difference
 
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pygo1

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I've also never heard anything particularly positive - no one can say for sure what it did, other than ~vibes~

I say that as someone who also used the product. It didn't do anything bad, maybe positive? but it's not easy to tell it really did something.
That is very true. When dosing something on a microbiological scale, it’s pretty tough to note exact results with so many other factors. I can also only offer ~vibes~ on my experience so far, but it seems like my glass has been much cleaner so far and other algaes are beginning to dwindle. I need to check my phos levels still, but I expect they’ve lowered and I’ve noticed my alk consumption increasing(typically a sign of lower phos in my tank), plus coral coloration has been steadily improving over the last few days
 

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It took me a little bit to find the store link for some reason here is the link Quick View .
Thanks @Chris Spaulding! Yes, it's actually still possible to get the PNS HomeGro kit, though it's now a "special order" from us direct.

We've grown quite a bit over the last couple years, and since getting a great a distributor (Aquarium Supply Distribution), we've been inching away from a direct sales model. In fact, we recently closed the online store after BRS, SaltwaterAquarium dot com and Premium Aquatics all picked us up at around same time. However, they weren't really interested (at least so far) in carrying the bulk package, so we do still sell those on demand. As Chris pointed out (discovered, actually, haha), anyone can still order through that link (https://www.hydrospace.store/product-page/pns-homegro-2-5-gal) even though the store section of our website is now hidden. As before, any orders of the kit placed through this conduit are shipped out within a day or so (depending on day of week).

Appreciate that tip Chris, and BTW your tank is looking awesome!
 
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pygo1

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Thanks @Chris Spaulding! Yes, it's actually still possible to get the PNS HomeGro kit, though it's now a "special order" from us direct.

We've grown quite a bit over the last couple years, and since getting a great a distributor (Aquarium Supply Distribution), we've been inching away from a direct sales model. In fact, we recently closed the online store after BRS, SaltwaterAquarium dot com and Premium Aquatics all picked us up at around same time. However, they weren't really interested (at least so far) in carrying the bulk package, so we do still sell those on demand. As Chris pointed out (discovered, actually, haha), anyone can still order through that link (https://www.hydrospace.store/product-page/pns-homegro-2-5-gal) even though the store section of our website is now hidden. As before, any orders of the kit placed through this conduit are shipped out within a day or so (depending on day of week).

Appreciate that tip Chris, and BTW your tank is looking awesome!
Heyo, didn’t expect to see you in this thread haha! We spoke briefly during your AMA in the reef tank discord server and I appreciate the effort put into this product!

Aside from the usual literature on the bottle/website, can you offer any anecdotal evidence or experimental results in terms of how PNS affects the tank over time(for example, general time frames for reduction of various algae, even though that can be widely variable).

I do believe in this product, but I’m only 8 days into dosing it, so I don’t have a ton of concrete results yet.

That being said, I haven’t had to scrape the usual film algae from my glass, still looking crystal clear after 8 days! Polyp extension is improved and coloration has been increasing fairly rapidly on some mostly brown acros. I added a bleached scoly to the tank a few days ago and it’s already making a strong comeback.I really need to test my water today, but I know my alk was dangerously low and phosphate was somewhat high before beginning with PNS, so that rapid improvement of the corals in my previously sub-prime water parameters kind of shows me it has helped improve the water quality to some degree. GHA had been taking over, but it’s now growing slower and slower, I haven’t had enough to manually remove for a few days, so it seems like it’s winning the fight!

Disclaimer: i can’t quite give all the credit to PNSB here, since I also increased the amount of biopellets in the system as well as started using kalkwasser around the same time. But, the general health of the tank is certainly on the upswing and I do believe PNSB has played a significant role so far
 

Kenneth Wingerter

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Heyo, didn’t expect to see you in this thread haha! We spoke briefly during your AMA in the reef tank discord server and I appreciate the effort put into this product!

Aside from the usual literature on the bottle/website, can you offer any anecdotal evidence or experimental results in terms of how PNS affects the tank over time(for example, general time frames for reduction of various algae, even though that can be widely variable).

I do believe in this product, but I’m only 8 days into dosing it, so I don’t have a ton of concrete results yet.

That being said, I haven’t had to scrape the usual film algae from my glass, still looking crystal clear after 8 days! Polyp extension is improved and coloration has been increasing fairly rapidly on some mostly brown acros. I added a bleached scoly to the tank a few days ago and it’s already making a strong comeback.I really need to test my water today, but I know my alk was dangerously low and phosphate was somewhat high before beginning with PNS, so that rapid improvement of the corals in my previously sub-prime water parameters kind of shows me it has helped improve the water quality to some degree. GHA had been taking over, but it’s now growing slower and slower, I haven’t had enough to manually remove for a few days, so it seems like it’s winning the fight!

Disclaimer: i can’t quite give all the credit to PNSB here, since I also increased the amount of biopellets in the system as well as started using kalkwasser around the same time. But, the general health of the tank is certainly on the upswing and I do believe PNSB has played a significant role so far
Hi, and thanks!

I would say that the content on our blog (website) is indeed the best source of information on these bacteria. We there frequently cite outside (unaffiliated and therefore completely unbiased) peer-reviewed sources, which we admittedly lean on heavily since they (professional laboratory researchers) have far superior training and resources for studying these organisms. That's not to say that we don't test our products extensively; most of our research however centers around production and quality control issues rather than studying the behavior of the species, which has already been done quite thoroughly (R. palustris and R. rubrum for example are extremely well characterized).

All that being said, there unfortunately is no way to accurately predict the outcome of introducing these bacteria to a particular home aquarium, as each system is unique. As you noted, effects of these (or any) bacteria on algal growth rates will be highly variable from tank to tank depending upon abiotic factors including temperature, light intensity/spectrum, pH, UV exposure, even the availability of certain trace elements, and so on. Biotic factors such as competition/cooperation with members of the existing microbial community as well as bactivory by corals, clams, copepods, etc. will further increase variability of outcome here. Even on a single tank, the effects of using these bacteria can vary over time as changes in the system occur, just as we observe with other natural methods of water quality control such as chaeto reactors, carbon dosing, etc.

For starters, I can honestly say that we never receive negative reports about them (for example, AlgaeBarn has thus far sold several thousands of units of PNS ProBio and often marvels that they have yet to receive a single bad review, which they think is pretty remarkable). I've never seen reports of PNSB exhibiting any form of pathogenesis anywhere in the scientific literature nor from our users (they're quite benign, I've even seen R. palustris included in human probiotic formulae).

The overall effect of using these products has proven (anecdotally, at least) to be positive, rather than merely neutral. I'd stress that these bacteria (those in PNS ProBio particularly) are intended primarily as live food/probiotics for corals and other bactivorous organisms, as it has already been conclusively demonstrated that wild corals ingest this bacterium (R. palustris) as both a food and endosymbiont. We thus feel that the nutritional and probiotic properties of the species alone justify its use in reef aquaria (along with some similar demonstrated benefits when added to the foods of cultured fish and shrimp). We consider the 'other' benefits such as organic waste consumption, nutrient sequestration, competitive interaction with pathogens such as Vibrio, etc. to be qualities that simply make them more attractive as a live coral food. We do understand the strong interest in using these bacteria as biofiltration agents, and we definitely try to address all these various potential benefits to the best of our ability (our writer Taras Pleskun has a MSc. of Fisheries and Aquatic Science from the University of Florida), but we nevertheless mainly consider them to be a quality live coral food that is more likely to clean the water than to foul it.

While we've received reports from highly credible individuals of these bacteria significantly improving water quality (especially removing nitrate), we're careful not to promise dramatic (and certainly not rapid) results. In fact, one of the main advantages of this (as with other biological water quality management methods) is, in my opinion, the fact that changes occur at a slow and stead pace. Nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank, as they say. In that respect, using these bacteria to reduce phosphate concentration might be a lot safer than using, say, lanthanum chloride. Will it reduce your phosphates as much as you might desire? Maybe, maybe not, but either way, it can be a part of a safe, natural water quality management strategy.

I know this response was a bit longwinded (haha), but I hope it helps to answer some of your very good questions. I address some of this a little more here:
If the folks at the reef discord group want to discuss this further some time, I'd love to talk to you all again. ;) You guys were awesome.

Oh, one more thing, the PNSB and your biopellets are likely working in tandem. R. palustris is known to readily consume polyhydroxyalkanoates. They in fact are capable of producing it themselves as a form of energy reserve when subjected to extended periods of darkness (we use a photoperiod in the grow room to promote PHA synthesis, which presumably enhances cellular fitness and extends shelf life). Interesting side note, these bacteria are currently being investigated as a potential source of biodegradable plastics. :)
 

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Thanks @Chris Spaulding! Yes, it's actually still possible to get the PNS HomeGro kit, though it's now a "special order" from us direct.

We've grown quite a bit over the last couple years, and since getting a great a distributor (Aquarium Supply Distribution), we've been inching away from a direct sales model. In fact, we recently closed the online store after BRS, SaltwaterAquarium dot com and Premium Aquatics all picked us up at around same time. However, they weren't really interested (at least so far) in carrying the bulk package, so we do still sell those on demand. As Chris pointed out (discovered, actually, haha), anyone can still order through that link (https://www.hydrospace.store/product-page/pns-homegro-2-5-gal) even though the store section of our website is now hidden. As before, any orders of the kit placed through this conduit are shipped out within a day or so (depending on day of week).

Appreciate that tip Chris, and BTW your tank is looking awesome!

Haha I wanted to tag you here but forgot your name at the time
 
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pygo1

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Hi, and thanks!

I would say that the content on our blog (website) is indeed the best source of information on these bacteria. We there frequently cite outside (unaffiliated and therefore completely unbiased) peer-reviewed sources, which we admittedly lean on heavily since they (professional laboratory researchers) have far superior training and resources for studying these organisms. That's not to say that we don't test our products extensively; most of our research however centers around production and quality control issues rather than studying the behavior of the species, which has already been done quite thoroughly (R. palustris and R. rubrum for example are extremely well characterized).

All that being said, there unfortunately is no way to accurately predict the outcome of introducing these bacteria to a particular home aquarium, as each system is unique. As you noted, effects of these (or any) bacteria on algal growth rates will be highly variable from tank to tank depending upon abiotic factors including temperature, light intensity/spectrum, pH, UV exposure, even the availability of certain trace elements, and so on. Biotic factors such as competition/cooperation with members of the existing microbial community as well as bactivory by corals, clams, copepods, etc. will further increase variability of outcome here. Even on a single tank, the effects of using these bacteria can vary over time as changes in the system occur, just as we observe with other natural methods of water quality control such as chaeto reactors, carbon dosing, etc.

For starters, I can honestly say that we never receive negative reports about them (for example, AlgaeBarn has thus far sold several thousands of units of PNS ProBio and often marvels that they have yet to receive a single bad review, which they think is pretty remarkable). I've never seen reports of PNSB exhibiting any form of pathogenesis anywhere in the scientific literature nor from our users (they're quite benign, I've even seen R. palustris included in human probiotic formulae).

The overall effect of using these products has proven (anecdotally, at least) to be positive, rather than merely neutral. I'd stress that these bacteria (those in PNS ProBio particularly) are intended primarily as live food/probiotics for corals and other bactivorous organisms, as it has already been conclusively demonstrated that wild corals ingest this bacterium (R. palustris) as both a food and endosymbiont. We thus feel that the nutritional and probiotic properties of the species alone justify its use in reef aquaria (along with some similar demonstrated benefits when added to the foods of cultured fish and shrimp). We consider the 'other' benefits such as organic waste consumption, nutrient sequestration, competitive interaction with pathogens such as Vibrio, etc. to be qualities that simply make them more attractive as a live coral food. We do understand the strong interest in using these bacteria as biofiltration agents, and we definitely try to address all these various potential benefits to the best of our ability (our writer Taras Pleskun has a MSc. of Fisheries and Aquatic Science from the University of Florida), but we nevertheless mainly consider them to be a quality live coral food that is more likely to clean the water than to foul it.

While we've received reports from highly credible individuals of these bacteria significantly improving water quality (especially removing nitrate), we're careful not to promise dramatic (and certainly not rapid) results. In fact, one of the main advantages of this (as with other biological water quality management methods) is, in my opinion, the fact that changes occur at a slow and stead pace. Nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank, as they say. In that respect, using these bacteria to reduce phosphate concentration might be a lot safer than using, say, lanthanum chloride. Will it reduce your phosphates as much as you might desire? Maybe, maybe not, but either way, it can be a part of a safe, natural water quality management strategy.

I know this response was a bit longwinded (haha), but I hope it helps to answer some of your very good questions. I address some of this a little more here:
If the folks at the reef discord group want to discuss this further some time, I'd love to talk to you all again. ;) You guys were awesome.

Oh, one more thing, the PNSB and your biopellets are likely working in tandem. R. palustris is known to readily consume polyhydroxyalkanoates. They in fact are capable of producing it themselves as a form of energy reserve when subjected to extended periods of darkness (we use a photoperiod in the grow room to promote PHA synthesis, which presumably enhances cellular fitness and extends shelf life). Interesting side note, these bacteria are currently being investigated as a potential source of biodegradable plastics. :)
Wow! I appreciate the long winded response haha.

I had not previously seen the blog portion of the website, so I'll be checking that out, thanks. Anecdotes don't always mean a ton, especially in a reef tank with all those variables you listed. But I do enjoy reading about the various effects people witness and how things tend to work in a more "real life" setting, so I think the blog will be a great resource!

About your zero negative reviews, that is pretty dang impressive! Another commenter mentioned how rare that is when it comes to aquarium products, so that is quite the feat! I'm just now catching up on the Vibrant drama alleging(proving?) that there is no actual bacteria contained within their product, which sucks to see. I(and I'm sure many others) appreciate your transparency with the product and continued engagement with the community. I'm excited to see how PNSB affects my tank in the long run. I've always stressed the importance of the microbiome within my tanks and it's great to see a trustworthy product on the market. It's funny that you stress your marketing as a coral food, since all the other reefers I've talked with have only really mentioned it in terms of biofiltration lol. In any case, one bacteria playing the role of both is certainly a win!

From a filtration perspective, this seems like exactly what I've been looking for. GFO/lanthanum chloride, etc. are all fine and dandy, but having a natural method to sequester nutrients without worry of overdosing blows every other option out of the water. I finally got around to testing my phosphates and it seems like it's hovering around 0.1, which is perfectly acceptable to me. As you said, nothing good happens overnight and I don't expect this to be any exception. It may seem like a drawback to some, and I'm not sure if this is a common occurrence, but I've thoroughly enjoyed seeing the PNSB colonies in my tank. My biopellet reactor, skimmer cup, one problematic rock that I suspect is leeching phosphates, and parts of the sand bed where I injected the product with a baster have all turned the same reddish color as the bottled product lol. Too often, we dose products and have no idea if they do anything or even remain in the tank. So, if these are in fact PNSB colonies, it is nice to see a bit of a visual cue. If I can get the lighting right, I'll try and post some pictures of the color change if you're interested.

I was aware of their use with biopellets(or maybe I just assumed, cant remember haha), which is a large portion of my reasoning for purchasing it in the first place :p I felt the need to re-seed my reactor and thought this would be the best choice after previously subpar results. However, their ability to synthesize PHA is certainly an interesting tidbit!

Thanks for taking the time to get back to me with such a solid response. I'll talk to the discord guys about another AMA if you want to plan something. Or, feel free to pop in whenever!
 

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I used it for 6 weeks including the yellow sno as directed and it had no effects on either N03 or P04. Not a single 100th of a point of reduction. I know 6 weeks isn't long but with other bacterial products I've at least seen seem some type of reduction by this time.

I had high hopes it would be the one bacteria that would be better at sequestering P04 but it was a bust.

There are many commercial bacteria products that are a lot less and do well with nitrates but not so with P04, so my search continues.

Maybe in conjunction with a carbon dosing regime it would work better but I can get that with the less expensive products.
 
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