What Are Your Thoughts On UV Sterilizers?

[bushdoc]

Interesting link.… but that leads to an even broader debate (for another thread). Are we trying to (or should we be trying to) replicate what is in nature in our captive reefs?

I will answer with another article from AquaBiomics, or better graph from this article. It looks as if Pelagibacteraceae are one of the most abundant bacterial families in established reef tanks, so perhaps we are not trying to replicate nature, but nature still find ways into our tanks.

The core microbiome of a saltwater aquarium

Microbiome testing for aquariums and aquaculture

aquabiomics.com

 

[Moscar]

No where did he say "clarify". His observation is just that, his observation.

plenty of natural UV to purify water

I'm a Zeo head, so no UV is permitted.
But! I have one and an extra circulator pump that I can add easily to my sump(s) if I really, really have the need.
Pre ZeoVit, UV did clear up a bloom of an unknown nature in less than 24hours.

You are twisting his words…

Don't feed the troll, click [IGNORE].

 

[BeanAnimal]

, but nature still find ways into our tanks.

The core microbiome of a saltwater aquarium

Microbiome testing for aquariums and aquaculture

aquabiomics.com

That is for certain to some degree and to that end, I think that the vast majority end up with very similar long term subsets of what is found in nature.

 

[Lavey29]

I will answer with another article from AquaBiomics, or better graph from this article. It looks as if Pelagibacteraceae are one of the most abundant bacterial families in established reef tanks, so perhaps we are not trying to replicate nature, but nature still find ways into our tanks.

The core microbiome of a saltwater aquarium

Microbiome testing for aquariums and aquaculture

aquabiomics.com

I wish a standard ICP test could also give you your microbiome bacteria numbers too

 

[BeanAnimal]

No where did he say "clarify". His observation is just that, his observation.

Clarify, purify… the difference between the two makes absolutely makes no difference In context to my point or comment. That point was that his ‘ observation‘ can’t be correlated in any way to UV sterilizers for aquariums. That point still stands. I am baffled at the number of you who want to quibble words and have missed the very point of his comment and my response, like my delivery not.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I wish a standard ICP test could also give you your microbiome bacteria numbers too

Two absolutely unrelated sciences and tests.

To that end, I am not at all sure what use a microbiome tests is for most folks other than being interesting, especially given the fact that most predominately end up looking very similar in a mature system.

 

[Dinkins Aquatic Gardens]

Curious to see how many people on R2R use UV Sterilizers on their aquariums.

What or your thoughts on UV Sterilizer lights for Reef aquariums?

I absolutely love UV. I will say to be sure and change the bulbs/clean the quartz sleeve regularly. If you're looking for help with disease, be sure you have the correct flowrate nailed and even then it's a good idea to oversize the UV.

 

[Lavey29]

Two absolutely unrelated sciences and tests.

To that end, I am not at all sure what use a microbiome tests is for most folks other than being interesting, especially given the fact that most predominately end up looking very similar in a mature system.

I wouldn't say they are unrelated. If your water chemistry is off then your microbiome may be suffering in an unfavorable environment which means tank problems.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I wouldn't say they are unrelated. If your water chemistry is off then your microbiome may be suffering in an unfavorable environment which means tank problems.

Unrelated sciences in the context of testing, equipment and expertise. One is pure biology, the other pure is chemistry.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I will say to be sure and change the bulbs/clean the quartz sleeve regularly.

The part (esp cleaning) that many folks ignore and end up getting a fraction of the potential (whatever that ends up being) out of their already typically undersized UV.

 

[Lavey29]

Unrelated sciences in the context of testing, equipment and expertise. One is pure biology, the other pure is chemistry.

Yes I agree

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Okay here we go again with opinion without possible experience. I have over 30 years of real life on the ground experience with large and small UV systems. So in my opinion and experience properly fabricated systems work every time.

I layed out multiple retail aquarium stores in the 80's to 2000's and used properly sized System Paks from Aquanetics. These included temperture control both (heating and chilling), mechanical filtration, chemical filtration and U.V. matched to the pump. This was coupled to trickle towers, protein skimmers (for saltwater systems) and large sumps to handle all the tanks plumbed into the system. Inverts one system, saltwater fish one system. Freshwater tropical and Freshwater cold on separate systems. In every case the retail stores fish loss rates plummeted from as high as 30 percent down to 1-3 percent across every store. I have added UV to two 1500 gallon tanks that were losing fish due to disease along with the System Paks and the losses stopped almost overnight. I hired a DVM employed by WSU with aqua culture experience to diagnose the problem in the systems and recommend the equipment upgrade via decropsy and microscopic inspection of the fish. Properly designed and used the UV works for disease eradication and prevention both in single and multiple aquarium environments. Many public aquariums use this technology with ozone injection and biosecurity measures to great effect. Some public aquariums use UV to filter fresh seawater before introduction to the display or holding systems. The biggest problem is not using the proper UV sterilizers (quartz sleeved) matched to the main pump. Not a manifold hook up or smaller loop circulation system but one rated to the turn over pump rate you want in the system. This is after mechanical filtration to prevent turbidity from reducing the effectiveness of the UV. It is hard for me to remain silent when such broad claims are made about there effectiveness that come from those who may have no real experience in the aquatic industry. Repeated success across multiple systems is science not conjecture. While managing laboratories for 10 plus years I became dependant on repeated success to deliver scientifically repeatable results.

Is UV necessary for every aquarium of course not. Is prophylactic treatment of fish without diagnosis necessary for every fish of course not. When you are setting up a new aquarium you may benefit from the proper use until the tank and population is stable. Then since you are no longer bringing new specimens into the tank you could suspend its use. It is just another biosecurity measure that works if you follow proper design. It is just a tool and a good one at that!

You could have the same success with other biosecurity measures if you have the expertise and time to take your fish and inverts through the necessary steps. I do notice the preponderance of failures on R2R with attempts of a large majority of people that experience loss rates way in excess to the stores I partnered with in the past. Doing the same thing over again with poor results damages the hobby. Stating certain tools don't work without knowing how and when to employ them leades to failures and blanket statements the honestly don't match real world experience.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Okay here we go again with opinion without possible experience. I have over 30 years of real life on the ground experience with large and small UV systems. So in my opinion and experience properly fabricated systems work ever time.

I layed out multiple retail aquarium stores in the 80's to 2000's and used properly sized System Paks from Aquanetics. These included temperture control both (heating and chilling), mechanical filtration, chemical filtration and U.V. matched to the pump. This was coupled to trickle towers, protein skimmers (for saltwater systems) and large sumps to handle all the tanks plumbed into the system. Inverts one system, saltwater fish one system. Freshwater tropical and Freshwater cold on separate systems. In every case the retail stores fish loss rates plummeted from as high as 30 percent down to 1-3 percent across every store. I have added UV to two 1500 gallon tanks that were losing fish due to disease along with the System Paks and the losses stopped almost overnight. I hired a DVM employed by WSU with aqua culture experience to diagnose the problem in the systems and recommend the equipment upgrade via decropsy and microscopic inspection of the fish. Properly designed and used the UV works for disease eradication and prevention both in single and multiple aquarium environments. Many public aquariums use this technology with ozone injection and biosecurity measures to great effect. Some public aquariums use UV to filter fresh seawater before introduction to the display or holding systems. The biggest problem is not using the proper UV sterilizers (quartz sleeved) matched to the main pump. Not a manifold hook up or smaller loop circulation system but one rated to the turn over pump rate you want in the system. This is after mechanical filtration to prevent turbidity from reducing the effectiveness of the UV. It is hard for me to remain silent when such broad claims are made about there effectiveness that come from those who may have no real experience in the aquatic industry. Repeated success across multiple systems is science not conjecture. While managing laboratories for 10 plus years I became dependant on repeated success to deliver scientifically repeatable results.

Is UV necessary for every aquarium of course not. Is prophylactic treatment of fish without diagnosis necessary for every fish of course not. When you are setting up a new aquarium you may benefit from the proper use until the tank and population is stable. Then since you are no longer bringing new specimens into the tank you could suspend its use. It is just another biosecurity measure that works if you follow proper design. It is just a tool and a good one at that!

You could have the same success with other biosecurity measures if you have the expertise and time to take your fish and inverts through the necessary steps. I do notice the preponderance of failures on R2R with attempts of a large majority of people that experience loss rates way in excess to the stores I partnered with in the past. Doing the same thing over agin with poor results damages the hobby. Stating certain tools don't work without knowing how and when to employ them leades to failures and blanket statements the honestly don't match real world experience.

I fully agree. A lot of uninformed opinions here.
UV doesn’t work for disease control?
All studies and literature say that it does.
Why is it that basically every commercial breeding operation, public aquarium, importer etc use them for this exact purpose?

The biggest downfall I see when people are implementing a UV on a system is that they are almost never using the right size (if it’s for protozoan control). A 40w unit on a 1000L tank won’t do jack. A 180w unit Will however give you great results.

It’s not a bandaid to use to counteract improper husbandry but can be a great addition to a healthy system as a whole.

 

[Dolphis]

I purchased a large UV in hopes it would help with ich and such, but never saw any benefits.
Never did run it in a set up for algae blooms , so I can’t comment in that aspect.
However, I feel like it was a big waste of money and found QT a better option, with much better results.
I’ve taken the UV offline, but haven’t completely gotten rid of it, but I doubt I’ll ever use it again

 

[Viking_Reefing]

I purchased a large UV in hopes it would help with ich and such, but never saw any benefits.
Never did run it in a set up for algae blooms , so I can’t comment in that aspect.
However, I feel like it was a big waste of money and found QT a better option, with much better results.
I’ve taken the UV offline, but haven’t completely gotten rid of it, but I doubt I’ll ever use it again

What was your uWs/cm2 dosage?

 

[flashsmith]

For clarity nothing beats them. I saw someone say snake oil. Everything in this hobby could be considered snake oil in some way. I know when my uv is off line within a day. Water starts turning a light milky color. Film on the glass faster than normal. I run them on both of my systems and wouldn't run a tank without one. Depends on your goals really. I think people who don't run them are used to the appearance of their tanks. I can tell right away when a tank isn't running uv just by the water.

 

[FishTruck]

For the hobbyist... looking just for clear water... I also advocate plumbing it in the sump, in parallel, with a DC adjustable pump. Super easy. This allows a cheap estimate of the actual water flow and the option to run at low flow or high flow with the touch of a button. And, it's easy to take it off line for service, or if you just don't want to run it for awhile.

Running it directly in and out of the the display the same way is probably better if you can swing it without it being an eyesore.

...or directly from the return pump with valves and a flow meter.... but is a hassle to set up this way and probably not necessary for simple water clarification.

 

[CoralB]

I would also point out that a UV light only has effects on what is in the water column . What may or may not be on your substrate, glass, or rock etc. will not be affected by a UV light

 

[CoralB]

If your fish already have a ick or any other disease a UV will not have a affect except in keeping the water column clear

 

[ScottB]

I always keep an oversized UV prepped and ready to slap on my two systems. Stuff happens. Ich, and certain dinoflagellates can be quickly managed (not eliminated) with a whopping UV.

Yeah, it is big, ugly and expensive. But it is temporary and occasionally necessary IME.