What do I tell an electrician when planning a new tank build?

[miyags]

What do I tell an electrician?..WOW, you were actually cheaper than my first coral.​

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Actually the 10 gauge wire is smart for Metal Halides. Devices that produce a lot of heat, tend to try and turn the entire circuit into a heater. There’s a name for this effect, but I forgot what it is.

It's actually not. #12 wire can handle 20A all day every day 24/7 without heating up to a point that it could cause any harm. All wires conduct heat. As long as you don't exceed the temperature rating of the conductor and insulation no harm can be done.

Using #10 on a 20A circuit normal length run of cable is just extra money for no measurable benefit.

Will is work if that's what you already have on hand? Yes. You can always go lower AWG as long as it will fit in the lugs, but it won't net you any benefit and will cost almost double.

The exception to this is very long runs such as a subpanel feed to a detached garage 200ft from the house. In those cases oversized cable for the point of reducing voltage drop is sometimes necessary. I occasionally have to do this in Electrical Substations but it's for real long runs like 400+ft usually.

 

[RichReef]

Do you also tell people to fill their tanks with racing fuel to get their groceries?

Nope but I will tell them not to use a sports car or a truck to do it.

Types of fuel have nothing to do with flow but LARGER fuel line does.

And most regular people don't want to hear my recommendations on automobiles. Their Ego would be smashed.

Like a nice car? What is a nice car?

Nice cars never get driven in the rain.
Nice cars don't get washed. They get wiped.
Nice cars don't end up a 4x4 box of recycled material.
I love my car? Until you get rid of it. Not a nice car.
Most assembly line cars are .... junk on wheels.

It's all about standards and your level of them. Like 10GA wire.

I'll edit the post out later on since some want to jab me for it or mock me but my wire to my tank ...... is better. Above standard. Like nice cars.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

It's all about standards and your level of them. Like 10GA wire.

I'll edit the post out later on since some want to jab me for it or mock me but my wire to my tank ...... is better. Above standard. Like nice cars.

A more apt analogy is that using 10GA wire on a 20A circuit is like using a three 2 inch drains on a 55 gallon tank.

In that case the drain line is "above standard" and can handle 3300gph through it. All that overhead is wasted because the most you will ever run through your return pump is 500 gph. All you really need is a 3/4" line rated for 660gph.

Same thing with 10GA wiring. Unless it's a long run where voltage drop is a concern, you can never run more than 20A through it so that overhead is wasted.

It technically works, but there is no reason to perpetuate the myth to people that 10GA is "better" because it's not. It is equally effective at twice the cost, just like a 3/4" drain on a 55 gallon is equally effective to a 2" drain of a 55 gallon.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

A more apt analogy is that using 10GA wire on a 20A circuit is like using a three 2 inch drains on a 55 gallon tank.

In that case the drain line is "above standard" and can handle 3300gph through it. All that overhead is wasted because the most you will ever run through your return pump is 500 gph. All you really need is a 3/4" line rated for 660gph.

Same thing with 10GA wiring. Unless it's a long run where voltage drop is a concern, you can never run more than 20A through it so that overhead is wasted.

It technically works, but there is no reason to perpetuate the myth to people that 10GA is "better" because it's not. It is equally effective at twice the cost, just like a 3/4" drain on a 55 gallon is equally effective to a 2" drain of a 55 gallon.

Hhmmm…. Now I want to hear the thhn vs mtw and solid vs stranded debate!

 

[RichReef]

It technically works, but there is no reason to perpetuate the myth to people that 10GA is "better" because it's not. It is equally effective at twice the cost, just like a 3/4" drain on a 55 gallon is equally effective to a 2" drain of a 55 gallon.

Of course it's better.

What if I want to plug a heat gun in for some pipe bending?
Or a shop vac to clean my sump?
Both at the same time?
Add more equipment?
Upgrade equipment?
Put an entire new system nearby?
I can add other outlets using that one as feed if I want.

I can tell you right now that when I use my shop vac on my 12GA line for my 55 gallon tank it trips the 15A breaker. New breaker. New outlet. Even new wire. The tank sits 6 feet from the breaker box. It's the entire reason I went overboard on the new feed for my upstairs tank.

I've been correcting calculations on paper my entire life.

Versatility can not be measured.

I make the recommendation because it's what I did and it's not wrong. 12GA isn't wrong neither but I would never use it on a larger system if I had the choice.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

I can tell you right now that when I use my shop vac on my 12GA line for my 55 gallon tank it trips the 15A breaker. New breaker. New outlet. Even new wire. The tank sits 6 feet from the breaker box. It's the entire reason I went overboard on the new feed for my upstairs tank.

It didn't trip because it's 12GA. It tripped because it's a 15A breaker. If you put a 20A breaker in, which 12GA can support it wouldn't have tripped.

FYI, I am an electrical engineer with a Masters and also simultaneously a utility electrician for more than a decade. I know from personal experience, when the calculations are done correctly, they are never wrong. My job is to find what engineers screwed up and fix it on the fly.

 

[EugeneVan]

Depend on how much you have invested in your tank. If it is like over $$$$$, I will ask the electrician to put out a conjuction box to your reef tank electric circuit so that you can hook up a generator to it in case of power outage. 2 months ago, I have a power outage in my house for 10 hrs. A $500 3000watts generator and $30 of gas do an excellenet job and save all my live stocks and my life.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Depend on how much you have invested in your tank. If it is like over $$$$$, I will ask the electrician to put out a conjuction box to your reef tank electric circuit so that you can hook up a generator to it in case of power outage. 2 months ago, I have a power outage of my house for 10 hrs. A $500 3000watts generator do an excellenet job and save all my live stocks and my life.

These are nice. The actual name for these is a generator transfer box or a generator inlet box.

 

[RichReef]

It didn't trip because it's 12GA. It tripped because it's a 15A breaker. If you put a 20A breaker in, which 12GA can support it wouldn't have tripped.

It is 20A. That was a typo.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

It is 20A. That was a typo.

Then it tripped because you put more than 20A on the circuit. Upgrading to 10GA does not fix that problem. You can't put a 30A breaker on a receptacle feed, so you're limited to 20A even if you use 10GA.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I think there’s there’s an electricians anonymous meeting somewhere

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

 

[BZOFIQ]

It is 20A. That was a typo.

Rich, no matter how you spin it facts are facts.

10Ga wire does not allow you to run higher loads with 20Amp breaker and 20Amp outlet to match, even if you install multiple outlets.

I'm sorry but your argument reminds me of this

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

You know, I’d be more of an advocate if someone undersized and created a possible hazard. He went overboard for whatever reason. It does not hurt anything, or create a hazard. So in the end, what’s the problem. We should be having fun here, it’s a hobby. Who cares who the smartest person in the room is, or how big your junk is.