i just like Plugs cause they are easier to work with for my set up. Im sure others setup work better with rubble and some work better with plugs its going to be mostly customer preferance and that is going to change person from person.
What do you all prefer
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cheaper to use rubble i'm sure, but I know with sps frags it sure is easier to use plugs when doing propagation. on rubble they are tipping over all the time and touching each other. end up with lots of warfare and unhappy frags.
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When I was running Gooch's Corals a few years back we used nothing but rubble early on. Let me tell you it was a pain in the bottom. I had frags constantly getting knocked into each other, falling and getting lost. I had tanks just loaded with rubble. Some of you might remember that. Rubble took up far more space than I had intended. Which meant setting up more tanks as I grew. We experimented with concrete and plastic with mixed to poor results. It wasn't until I was just about ready to give up the farm that we started playing with ceramics. By then other farmers were using aragonite plugs and it wasn't that I particularly liked the look. But I liked that I only got the coral. Less chance of parasites hidden deep inthe rock either.
I had decided to close shop and put up a 360+ gallon tank and just enjoy it. The goal of the tank was to be as close to 100% aquacultured as possible. I built an aquascape out of 100% ceramic. No liverock was going to be used. Why? Because I still feel liverock is over rated. While I was building the structure I strategically placed holes in the rockwork to place aquacultured corals on plugs. After seeing these aragonite plugs I was shocked at how brittle and crappy they were. They would just crumble with little force. So I rolled out a couple plugs for myself. Of course I was doing a build of my progress at the time. Soon private message after private message came and I was getting tons of requests for plugs. I never dreamed that many people wanted to use plugs. It got to the point that I could no longer work on my own tank. I had to sell the tank, it never saw a drop of water, because I needed more space to make plugs. This is the display tank at Reefs. To date we have made over 300,000 plugs and disks. And I believe we are one of the smaller plug makers. I had never ever planned to do another business and trust me this one almost cost me my wife. She still hates it and would probably more than happy if I ever pulled the plug on it. But she knows now I am always going to do something. Better in the shop and not in the bars.
Why do more and more people switch to plugs and disks? I really don't think there is one good answer. I think for me getting a coral on a plug tells me the grower is actively into propagation and not just chopping up wild colonies and selling them three days after they come in. I like to see that plug encrusting. I know the grower has at least had it in a system capable of growing coral. And as long as I have been in this hobby that is not always the case. How many LFS have you been in where you felt the need to save a coral or fish. I don't do that anymore. Frag plugs also take up much less space and can be stored dry. They are relatively inexpensive when you compare them to other things. You can get 50 plugs for about $15. If I had say a 40 breeder set up I can probably keep a couple hundred frags growing out at one time. I doubt I could do half that with rubble. I know for a fact today I could probably grow out almost as many frags in two 40 breeders as I did in my entire shop using rubble. This saves the hobbyist money by maximizing the space they have to work with.
And the argument that frag plugs are ugly and hard to use. Well, Yes they are ugly. But they also grow over quickly and after awhile you do not notice them. You do have to glue or epoxy the plug into place at times but you need to do this with rubble as well. Sometimes you can get lucky and wedge it into a hole in the rock. I designed ours so that the stem is easy to remove flush. The disk stem can be snapped off with just a little finger pressure or a bone cutters. The plug might take a bone cutter but I have no issues snapping them off most of the time with my fingers. A plug is less intrusive to your rockwork. You just glue it into place and watch it grow. Depending on the rubble it doesn't always fit well into the rockwork. Early on I probably spent more time picking up corals on rock than anything else.
Now we took things a step further with the Frag Stations and our other products. We do our best to try to make propagation easier and more attractive for everyone. In my 65 gallon reef I can grow out 65 frags on plugs at one time. No exra tank, lighting, pumps or equipment. I do not sell coral anymore but if I wanted to I could have a nice little low cost operation where I could sell 65 to 100 frags a month right out of my display tank once it matures. Growing in the same contitions as the mother colony at a fraction of the cost of having a frag tank.
But in the end it is a personal choice. Plugs for me are just easier.
I had decided to close shop and put up a 360+ gallon tank and just enjoy it. The goal of the tank was to be as close to 100% aquacultured as possible. I built an aquascape out of 100% ceramic. No liverock was going to be used. Why? Because I still feel liverock is over rated. While I was building the structure I strategically placed holes in the rockwork to place aquacultured corals on plugs. After seeing these aragonite plugs I was shocked at how brittle and crappy they were. They would just crumble with little force. So I rolled out a couple plugs for myself. Of course I was doing a build of my progress at the time. Soon private message after private message came and I was getting tons of requests for plugs. I never dreamed that many people wanted to use plugs. It got to the point that I could no longer work on my own tank. I had to sell the tank, it never saw a drop of water, because I needed more space to make plugs. This is the display tank at Reefs. To date we have made over 300,000 plugs and disks. And I believe we are one of the smaller plug makers. I had never ever planned to do another business and trust me this one almost cost me my wife. She still hates it and would probably more than happy if I ever pulled the plug on it. But she knows now I am always going to do something. Better in the shop and not in the bars.
Why do more and more people switch to plugs and disks? I really don't think there is one good answer. I think for me getting a coral on a plug tells me the grower is actively into propagation and not just chopping up wild colonies and selling them three days after they come in. I like to see that plug encrusting. I know the grower has at least had it in a system capable of growing coral. And as long as I have been in this hobby that is not always the case. How many LFS have you been in where you felt the need to save a coral or fish. I don't do that anymore. Frag plugs also take up much less space and can be stored dry. They are relatively inexpensive when you compare them to other things. You can get 50 plugs for about $15. If I had say a 40 breeder set up I can probably keep a couple hundred frags growing out at one time. I doubt I could do half that with rubble. I know for a fact today I could probably grow out almost as many frags in two 40 breeders as I did in my entire shop using rubble. This saves the hobbyist money by maximizing the space they have to work with.
And the argument that frag plugs are ugly and hard to use. Well, Yes they are ugly. But they also grow over quickly and after awhile you do not notice them. You do have to glue or epoxy the plug into place at times but you need to do this with rubble as well. Sometimes you can get lucky and wedge it into a hole in the rock. I designed ours so that the stem is easy to remove flush. The disk stem can be snapped off with just a little finger pressure or a bone cutters. The plug might take a bone cutter but I have no issues snapping them off most of the time with my fingers. A plug is less intrusive to your rockwork. You just glue it into place and watch it grow. Depending on the rubble it doesn't always fit well into the rockwork. Early on I probably spent more time picking up corals on rock than anything else.
Now we took things a step further with the Frag Stations and our other products. We do our best to try to make propagation easier and more attractive for everyone. In my 65 gallon reef I can grow out 65 frags on plugs at one time. No exra tank, lighting, pumps or equipment. I do not sell coral anymore but if I wanted to I could have a nice little low cost operation where I could sell 65 to 100 frags a month right out of my display tank once it matures. Growing in the same contitions as the mother colony at a fraction of the cost of having a frag tank.
But in the end it is a personal choice. Plugs for me are just easier.
I don't mind the plugs that you can snap off the stem and have just the disc. the ones I despise are those super hard ones that don't have a snapping point. those things are just big and ugly and there really is no way for them to hide unless you just happen to have the right crevice in a rock.
kass03
Well-Known Member
Nice stuff Gooch! I had been following your frag station threads also pretty cool idea.
I wondered if Reefs carries any of the larger reef plugs or discs like 2 inch? I need a few for some chalice frags and have been meaning to see if they have any.
kass
I wondered if Reefs carries any of the larger reef plugs or discs like 2 inch? I need a few for some chalice frags and have been meaning to see if they have any.
kass
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I actually just pulled some samples out of the kiln today. 1.5" and 2" disks. Still working on it but hope to have them out by fall. Part of my basic line. We also have plans for a special large tile and a standard x-large tile. But sales are real slow in the summer so that might have to wait a bit.
2FarNorth
Active Member
I prefer to use plugs (Gooch's of course, I like the small size) much easier to load up the prop tank....
But when I purchase corals on plugs, I remove the frag anyways, and remount on my own material...
I'm a paranoid freak about letting bad things in my reef, and I have a strict QT procedure for letting new corals in my system, one step is to remove the plug the coral comes on...... Of course if it is the same plug I use, I do a thorough cleaning (bleach), and reuse the plug.
But when I purchase corals on plugs, I remove the frag anyways, and remount on my own material...
I'm a paranoid freak about letting bad things in my reef, and I have a strict QT procedure for letting new corals in my system, one step is to remove the plug the coral comes on...... Of course if it is the same plug I use, I do a thorough cleaning (bleach), and reuse the plug.
Fishcrazy06
Reefing Addict
Wow that was one heck of a write up Gooch. Never really sat and thought about some of the things you said. I do know that my new setup I had an acrylic stand made to fit the plugs. It was machined and part of it is machined to look like egg crate and the bottom two parts are machined with a grove in the acrylic for the plugs to fit right in there. I think it will be slick looking when I get it. It was designed around your plugs to fit in it though. I also like the doughnuts. However the other one you linked too is awesome looking!
Eric
Eric
johnanddawn
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i do both plugs and rock
i use gooches plugs and frag stations - they are great
the 2 i have sit in my display as part of the rockwork - after a month they looked just like live rock anyway - i plan on getting a couple of the 20 plug stations soon for my frag tank. egg crate is a pita. algae likes to grow on it and it is a pain to clean. only coraline algae not green seems to grow on the ceramic
bill at midwest had a couple of the magnetic frag stations for sale at the rhinelander swap - i almost bought one but was short on funds at the time. they are really cool. he also had the biguns - also cool
when i trim or frag:
high end stuff always gets a plug because of many of the reasons already noted and because people buying the more expensive stuff i think like the flexability of a plug
but cheaper corals like shrooms and zoas as well softies and other big frags just dont work well with plugs
also a couple years ago i started putting together combo rocks and they were a big hit with beginners at swaps. on a 3 - 4 inch branch rock i could put a couple different corals or zoa combinations and people liked that they could just set them in their tank and let them grow
i use gooches plugs and frag stations - they are great
the 2 i have sit in my display as part of the rockwork - after a month they looked just like live rock anyway - i plan on getting a couple of the 20 plug stations soon for my frag tank. egg crate is a pita. algae likes to grow on it and it is a pain to clean. only coraline algae not green seems to grow on the ceramic
bill at midwest had a couple of the magnetic frag stations for sale at the rhinelander swap - i almost bought one but was short on funds at the time. they are really cool. he also had the biguns - also cool
when i trim or frag:
high end stuff always gets a plug because of many of the reasons already noted and because people buying the more expensive stuff i think like the flexability of a plug
but cheaper corals like shrooms and zoas as well softies and other big frags just dont work well with plugs
also a couple years ago i started putting together combo rocks and they were a big hit with beginners at swaps. on a 3 - 4 inch branch rock i could put a couple different corals or zoa combinations and people liked that they could just set them in their tank and let them grow
haydenp
Active Member
We used to use other plugs around here until Gooch paid us a little visit. Now we use his stuff exclusively. Its a collection of great, well thought out and made stuff from an all around nice, local guy.
I have a feeling the metro Milwaukee area will have a retailer of his stuff shortly. :smile:
I have a feeling the metro Milwaukee area will have a retailer of his stuff shortly. :smile:
Fishcrazy06
Reefing Addict
Hey Paul do you have an actual picture of the frag rack you built for me or no?
Eric
Eric
haydenp
Active Member
yep, sure do. Its on the USB drive I left at the office. I can probably post it tomorrow.
Fishcrazy06
Reefing Addict
Sweet if you havent noticed I am stoked about this!!!! just need to find a time to meet up!
Eric
Eric
Fishcrazy06
Reefing Addict
I will be stuck at work!!!! I need to win the lottery!
Eric
Eric
haydenp
Active Member
I also have another hanging acrylic rack, like the kind I use, built that will fit an All Glass 120 or anything with a similar lip dimension. I built it for somebody who has disappeared and has not answered PMs. I'll dig up a few pictures.
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