What do you use to dose nitrates?

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marke

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Because then you're further elevating your Calcium AND Potassium levels (both present in the ME product). Assuming those elements are already being dosed and are at preferred levels, addition of the ME product would send them higher than desired (this is what happened in my case, switched to Loudwolf sodium nitrate).

Just for clarity. ME Nitrates is made with sodium, potassium, and calcium nitrate. In that order. Yes it will raise all 3 of these levels as we increase nitrates. If you use only sodium nitrate its possible to raise the sodium level to high and change the sodium chloride ratio. A blend is better. Also dosing instructions are on the bottle, as its made specifically for the advanced aquarium keeper.
 

hyprc

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Just for clarity. ME Nitrates is made with sodium, potassium, and calcium nitrate. In that order. Yes it will raise all 3 of these levels as we increase nitrates. If you use only sodium nitrate its possible to raise the sodium level to high and change the sodium chloride ratio. A blend is better. Also dosing instructions are on the bottle, as its made specifically for the advanced aquarium keeper.
I've been dosing sodium nitrate and ESV 2-part for over a year and a half now and done a total of 4 water changes at 15% each. Salinity has been dead stable without any special attention. Just my experience..
 

Righteous

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So what’s the deal with the the Triton NH Alpha and NO Beta products. I can’t find much information, but they claim it can be used to “raise nitrogen”. How do they differ from Biobase?

I’ve sent in an N-DOC and even if I put in zero for my NO3 test results, I never see any recommendations for dosing.

@Tim@Triton can you chime in?
 

Righteous

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Bump...

@Randy Holmes-Farley Do you have any insight into what's in the Triton NH Alpha and NO Beta?

Here are the links for reference:


 

Julian@Triton

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Okay... trying one more person ;)

@Julian@Triton I noticed you posted a PDF on the NDOC in the Vibrant thread. Can you chime in on when to dose nitrates... what the NH an NO products are for and how to use them?

NH Alpha and NO Beta are both Nitrogen supplements used to raise the concentration of this element in the reef aquarium. The suitability of their application is dependent upon the conditions existing in the aquarium. NH Alpha is applicable when there is no bacterial issues in the aquarium and the aquarist seeks to deliver additional nutrients to their coral.
NO Beta is the better choice when there are bacterial problems (eg Cyanobacteria) but the nutritional benefit to corals is lower.

Like the names imply NH Alpha is more aligned with Ammonia and NO Beta to Nitrate.

Biobase is designed to be dosed constantly to the aquarium, contains N, C and P and aims to maintain the ideal balance between these three elements.

All TRITON products are pharmaceutical grade and designed specifically for coral reef husbandry. Quality control is maintained through use of our labs worldwide.

Any concerns regarding the shift of Calcium, Potassium and Sodium can be easily addressed through ICP Lab testing.
 

Righteous

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NH Alpha and NO Beta are both Nitrogen supplements used to raise the concentration of this element in the reef aquarium. The suitability of their application is dependent upon the conditions existing in the aquarium. NH Alpha is applicable when there is no bacterial issues in the aquarium and the aquarist seeks to deliver additional nutrients to their coral.
NO Beta is the better choice when there are bacterial problems (eg Cyanobacteria) but the nutritional benefit to corals is lower.

Like the names imply NH Alpha is more aligned with Ammonia and NO Beta to Nitrate.

Biobase is designed to be dosed constantly to the aquarium, contains N, C and P and aims to maintain the ideal balance between these three elements.

All TRITON products are pharmaceutical grade and designed specifically for coral reef husbandry. Quality control is maintained through use of our labs worldwide.

Any concerns regarding the shift of Calcium, Potassium and Sodium can be easily addressed through ICP Lab testing.

@Julian@Triton Thanks for the response. Okay, so that aligns with what I was assuming about the products.

But is there a reason why NDOC tests (at least in my experience) never seem to indicate dosing NH or NO? I would assume that if I enter a value of 0ppm for nitrate it should indicate some dosage guidelines, no? I think there is a fair amount of interest in dosing nitrate (as in this thread) since Triton with its large refugium seems to be excellent at reducing levels to non detectable levels. I think a lot of us are concerned we are courting dinoflagellates at these levels and are looking for more precise info other than.. dose to 1ppm nitrate and cross your fingers. I know in my experience, dosing nitrate with my Triton tank seems to favor Cyanobacteria fairly quickly.
 

Julian@Triton

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But is there a reason why NDOC tests (at least in my experience) never seem to indicate dosing NH or NO? I would assume that if I enter a value of 0ppm for nitrate it should indicate some dosage guidelines, no?

There is a good reason why we currently do not provide exact dosage recommendations for NH Alpha and NO Beta. Please understand that the insights into nutrient ratios, gained through N-DOC testing, are still quite new and the problems associated with incorrect nutrient dosage are potentially serious. Like in the beginnings of ICP testing there is considerable scientific work still to be done to understand these new parameters and how they can be applied to the reef system in a beneficial way. For example the attached tech paper took over a year of data collection.
Coming back to your question, in the case of your Nitrate value there is a lot of things to be considered, for example the uncertainty with the accuracy of Nitrate home testing.
Having said this we are continuing to work on this area of aquarium water chemistry and plan to release an updated UI for N-DOC very soon.

I think there is a fair amount of interest in dosing nitrate (as in this thread) since Triton with its large refugium seems to be excellent at reducing levels to non detectable levels. I think a lot of us are concerned we are courting dinoflagellates at these levels and are looking for more precise info other than.. dose to 1ppm nitrate and cross your fingers. I know in my experience, dosing nitrate with my Triton tank seems to favor Cyanobacteria fairly quickly.

One of the main things that we have found from our research to date is that there are several elements that are connected to cyanobacteria issues. It seems to be more of a ratio imbalance problem as we have seen aquariums with both high and low levels of N suffer from these blooms. This issue seems to be more complicated than simply one value which possibly also explains why these problems continue to crop up so often in our hobby.
 

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Righteous

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My N-DOC test recommended NH Alpha and gave me a corrective dose...

Literally just got a result from my last NDOC test today. This is the first time it showed a dose for NH Alpha, but this test had the lowest Nitrogen reported at 0.37ppm. My tank is 100g and suggested an NH Alpha dose of 0.28ml once, followed by 0.2ml once a week.

I'm going to give it a try starting today (already had the NH Alpha on hand) and see how it goes. No cyano at the moment, so I'll report if it causes any issues like previous dosing did (brightwell). I'm also dosing prodibio hopefully to keep any possible cyano in check.

I'm assuming NH Alpha is ammonium nitrate... which is basically like fish pee right? Given the current wisdom that fish pee is best, I'd assume this to be a good alternative to trying to pack in more fish. :)

@Julian@Triton I'm not sure if you can give any more insight into NH Alpha? Do you know what the relation is to ammonia/ammonium concentration when dosing. Obviously we all want to be cautious raising ammonia levels too quickly. Thanks!
 

Julian@Triton

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@Julian@Triton I'm not sure if you can give any more insight into NH Alpha? Do you know what the relation is to ammonia/ammonium concentration when dosing. Obviously we all want to be cautious raising ammonia levels too quickly. Thanks!

Sorry but I cannot really give you any more information regarding NH Alpha as it is proprietary but, as I mentioned above, it is closely aligned with Ammonia. We can say that NH Alpha contains around 700mg of Nitrogen in each 100ml bottle.
 

Reefahholic

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I've been dosing sodium nitrate and ESV 2-part for over a year and a half now and done a total of 4 water changes at 15% each. Salinity has been dead stable without any special attention. Just my experience..

I'll have to agree. ESV keeps your ionically balanced.
 

Reefahholic

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There is a good reason why we currently do not provide exact dosage recommendations for NH Alpha and NO Beta. Please understand that the insights into nutrient ratios, gained through N-DOC testing, are still quite new and the problems associated with incorrect nutrient dosage are potentially serious. Like in the beginnings of ICP testing there is considerable scientific work still to be done to understand these new parameters and how they can be applied to the reef system in a beneficial way. For example the attached tech paper took over a year of data collection.
Coming back to your question, in the case of your Nitrate value there is a lot of things to be considered, for example the uncertainty with the accuracy of Nitrate home testing.
Having said this we are continuing to work on this area of aquarium water chemistry and plan to release an updated UI for N-DOC very soon.



One of the main things that we have found from our research to date is that there are several elements that are connected to cyanobacteria issues. It seems to be more of a ratio imbalance problem as we have seen aquariums with both high and low levels of N suffer from these blooms. This issue seems to be more complicated than simply one value which possibly also explains why these problems continue to crop up so often in our hobby.


Very interesting!

I've always wondered what the correct N&P ratio would be. I've noticed in my own tank when things come together perfectly I get a huge surge in growth. I've looked at the N&P during these events and there doesn't seem to be a consistent number for either of them, but they do rapidly fall when I get a big surge in growth. So I think it may have more to do with bacteria and stability.

What is the ideal N&P ratio that Triton would shoot for in their own tanks (Like the range)? Do you guys add bacteria back to the system? If so what is a good brand to use?
 

Julian@Triton

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Very interesting!

I've always wondered what the correct N&P ratio would be. I've noticed in my own tank when things come together perfectly I get a huge surge in growth. I've looked at the N&P during these events and there doesn't seem to be a consistent number for either of them, but they do rapidly fall when I get a big surge in growth. So I think it may have more to do with bacteria and stability.

What is the ideal N&P ratio that Triton would shoot for in their own tanks (Like the range)? Do you guys add bacteria back to the system? If so what is a good brand to use?

The attached tech paper lists all the nutrient ratios that we have found to be beneficial in closed system reef aquariums.
 

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blasterman

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I have a 20l long packed full of rapidly growing paly colonies and even with 3 striped damsels constantly over fed I struggle to keep nitrate detectable. Nitrate needs to be kept at least 5ppm or paly growth suffers. Stump remover works fine for me.
 

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