What equipment is essential and worth spending extra on for best water chemistry?

[HawaiianReef]

This is some Really Good information guys!

 

[Scrubber_steve]

In my opinion algae scrubbers are very good for a bit larger aquaria.

algae scrubbers assimilate inorganic nitrogen in the forms NH3/4, NO2, & NO3, & inorganic phosphate - PO4, during photosynthesis, & also take the carbon molecule from CO2, leaving O2, oxygenating the water & stabilizing pH. The size of the aquarium is inconsequential.

Small tanks are often overloaded with fish and other animals + nutrition. That means that the pH swings will be larger than in big tank. A skimmer will went out CO2 when it is a lot of it in the tank and supply it if it is low. And so we get a smaller pH swing.

Yes, a small tank with a lot of fish means CO2 & ammonia, passing from the gills of the fish, can be a potential problem, particularly at night when photosynthesising organisms cease taking up CO2. Increased CO2 will itself cause pH to lower in an aquarium if it builds up. A skimmer, operating in a room where CO2 levels can be substancially higher than in fresh air, will not remove CO2 from aquarium water & raise pH, but the opposite. This is why so many people either use a CO2 scrubber, &/or, feed their skimmers with fresh air from air lines drawing fresh air from outside.
An algae scrubber, or algae filtration in general, literally takes the carbon molecule from CO2 leaving O2. In nature about 70% of the oxygen we breathe is produced in the ocean via algae photosynthesis. Skimmers neither produce oxygen or remove CO2. They inject air into the aquariums water, & thus, however much CO2, & oxygen that air just happens to contain.

In regards to skimmers degassing ammonia, at least in any effective way, this is a falacy. Most of it is ionised ammonium that cannot be degassed in any case, & degassing ammonia from water isn't that simple that a typical skimmer set up would be effective. Skimmers removing organic waste before it breaks down into ammonia is how they indirectly control NO3 levels.
I have a 46g tank with a lot of fish. I don't use a skimmer. My only filtration is a scrubber & some GAC. I can run it at zero NO3 & PO4 if I choose, & my pH is always between 8.2 to 8.3, no matter the time of day I measure it.

From Eric Borneman articles – The need to breathe
Experimental Tanks
Conclusions and Recommendations

Aquaria can and do become saturated or supersaturated with oxygen during the day, and this is a result of oxygen resulting from irradiance of photosynthetic organisms.
In no case was saturation or supersaturation measured without photosynthesis.

Air stones and skimmers appear to be a very effective means of oxygenating small water volumes (if drawing fresh air). Their effect on larger water volumes appears to be less. While the effect may be relative, the larger tanks and systems described here utilized powerful skimming or air pumps, and to gain an equivalent amount of oxygen as occurs in small water volumes would likely require air pumps or skimmers far larger than those commonly employed by aquarists. This includes data from a coral farm where very large commercial sized skimmers and high surface area/volume ratios failed to produce water even nearly saturated with oxygen at night with a heavy coral population.

Using algae in reverse daylight tanks appears to be an effective means of keeping oxygen levels at normoxic levels at night. This effect is pronounced even in tanks and systems that employ protein skimmers and air stones.

Powerheads and recirculating pumps do not appear to greatly increase the oxygen saturation state of seawater aquaria. Instead, they probably serve to move oxygenated waters to areas of the tank that are locally lower in oxygen resulting from respiration within the tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Forget the skimmer, their totally unnecessary.
If you want co2 removal/ oxygenation, & nutrient control, get a good algae scrubber.
For DOC control use activated carbon such as ROX 0.8 in a reactor.

lol

Might be worth clarifying that this is an opinion, not a generally accepted fact.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

lol

Might be worth clarifying that this is an opinion, not a generally accepted fact.

LOl
Are you suggesting that photosynthesis, reducing co2 & oxygenating the water, & taking up inorganic nutrients is just an opinion, not fact???
Are you suggesting activated carbon being superior compared to a skimmer, at removing organics, is just an opinion, not fact?
Or is it my statement that skimmers are totally unnecessary that you disagree with?

Algae filtration is superior to skimming in ever way. But i suggest that if one chooses to not utilise algae filtration, then get a good activated carbon & an air pump

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Or is it my statement that skimmers are totally unnecessary that you disagree with?

This one too:

"Algae filtration is superior to skimming in ever way. "

Like saying a corvette is superior to a dump truck in every way.

Personally, I don't think any one method of chemistry control solves every problem, and I like to use several at the same time to make up for each others shortcomings: GFO, GAC, skimming, macroalgae or microalgae growth, and organic carbon dosing.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

This one too:

"Algae filtration is superior to skimming in ever way. "

Like saying a corvette is superior to a dump truck in every way.

My wording was a bit broad, yes. But, in regards to aeration, photosynthesis is superior as it removes the carbon molecule from CO2 leaving O2, & this is why it is the only method that can achieve oxygen saturation, or near that level. Skimmers on the other hand are not only less effective with aeration, but unless CO2 scrubbers are used, or a quality supply of clean fresh air is used to feed the pump, they can have the opposite result.
Photosynthesis filtration for inorganic nutrient control is also superior to skimming. Not only is nitrogen assimilated in the form NO2/3, ammonia is most easily assimilated & removed from the water rather than being converted biologically to nitrite/nitrate.

Personally, I don't think any one method of chemistry control solves every problem, and I like to use several at the same time to make up for each others shortcomings: GFO, GAC, skimming, macroalgae or microalgae growth, and organic carbon dosing.

Thats fair enough Randy, but the title of this thread is - What equipment is essential and worth spending extra on for best water chemistry? I don't believe a skimmer can be considered essential. I haven't used one for years, & many other people haven't either.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

After a few years away from the hobby, I've come back to a bunch of old test kits, refractometers, salt mix, etc.

As of now I'm reusing all of it, but am also wanting to take my reef chemistry to the next level with better maintenance.

Therefore, what equipment should I spend extra money on that will ensure happy fish?

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[hart24601]

For 20g? I would say the best is a 5g bucket, ro/di, and a salt mix! Stick with a weekly bucket change - 4g in the bucket will be over 20% change weekly if figure the tank will have under 20g with rock. Stir things up and use turkey baster on rocks before the w/c.

Keep that up every week and you will have a great reef!

 

[WhalesLovePineapple]

Speaking of skimmer talk - I do have a nuvo 20 ghost skimmer. However, it doesn't collect anything because I assume there's nothing to skim. First time I used it, it did collect skim, but after that the bubbles dont reach the top anymore.

Right now I want to focus on having the best parameters possible for my fish to grow in, less priority on corals. It seems my Kessil light combined with 10 mg/l nitrates & 1.0 mg/l phosphates is causing an algae bloom (green, brown & a little cyano)

 

[WhalesLovePineapple]

For 20g? I would say the best is a 5g bucket, ro/di, and a salt mix! Stick with a weekly bucket change - 4g in the bucket will be over 20% change weekly if figure the tank will have under 20g with rock. Stir things up and use turkey baster on rocks before the w/c.

Keep that up every week and you will have a great reef!

Yup, I've been doing a 5 gallon water change once a month, but now I'm considering doing it more frequently. My concern is that because it's a 20% change, water changes are stressful to the livestock

 

[WhalesLovePineapple]

Any recommendations on TDS meters? I see many from amazon to bulk reef supply - but the price ranges from $15 - $35

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any recommendations on TDS meters? I see many from amazon to bulk reef supply - but the price ranges from $15 - $35

For purposes of RO/DI monitoring, I prefer inline meters, but most any TDS meter is OK as accuracy for that purpose is not very important.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thats fair enough Randy, but the title of this thread is - What equipment is essential and worth spending extra on for best water chemistry? I don't believe a skimmer can be considered essential. I haven't used one for years, & many other people haven't either.

I don't think anything is essential except an alk test, if you want to focus on the actual meaning of essential.

 

[Dolelo96]

The key goal in water chemistry is achieving stability.

The single largest driver of stability is VOLUME.

Start with a bigger tank, like a 65G. Whatever size you choose, you will wish you went bigger.

Have to agree with ScottB. I started with a 40gallon Fusion AIO. The swings in chemistry had me testing water almost every day and that’s with a weekly water change, skimmer & reactor. If you can swing it, I’d get bigger,but keep in mind, bigger tank means more expensive equipment. I’ve upgraded to Red Sea Reefer 425xl and already want bigger.

Welcome!!! [emoji4]

 

[fredk]

...
A sump isn't necessary at all. Not even mechanical filtration. Good flow and a good heater is all you need with the 10% (2g) water changes per week.

So a 20g tank with a couple circulation pumps and heater. A $20 florescent light and quality bulb. And a bucket of quality salt. On the table, a good test kit and supplements. Can't go wrong and VERY affordable. About a couple hundred bucks.

I'm with the water changes crowd. That's a small tank. $60 a year in salt for water changes is very inexpensive and it would be a simple way to maintain things like calcium and magnesium.

I personally like a sump just for the added volume (better stability( and a convenient place to do water changes and to accumulate detritus. I wouldn't call it essential though.

I don't think anything is essential except an alk test, if you want to focus on the actual meaning of essential.

Is alkalinity important for soft corals as well? Hmm, is it important for the fishies too??

It often comes up here as the most important parameter to monitor, but its always in conjunction with sps tank talk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm with the water changes crowd. That's a small tank. $60 a year in salt for water changes is very inexpensive and it would be a simple way to maintain things like calcium and magnesium.

I personally like a sump just for the added volume (better stability( and a convenient place to do water changes and to accumulate detritus. I wouldn't call it essential though.


Is alkalinity important for soft corals as well? Hmm, is it important for the fishies too??

It often comes up here as the most important parameter to monitor, but its always in conjunction with sps tank talk.

It controls pH, and is less important but still important in a soft coral or fish tank.

 

[fredk]

It controls pH, and it less important but still important in a soft coral or fish tank.

That's what I thought, but I'd never really considered the relative importance to things not a stony coral.

 

[fredk]

Yup, I've been doing a 5 gallon water change once a month, but now I'm considering doing it more frequently. My concern is that because it's a 20% change, water changes are stressful to the livestock

People are doing some really neat things with automatic water changers these days. If you have someplace near the tank for a salt water supply tank and easy access to a drain you could have a lot of flexibility in how much and how often you change water without any extra effort.

 

[Billldg]

Truth is that is a loaded question, its all important.