What ever happened to the Vertex Cerebra?

Cyricdark · Nov 27, 2018

gcarroll said:
So beta test revealed that the hardware was not capable of doing whet they wanted it to do. So rather than ditch the whole project they started over from scratch. This wasn't just building new hardware and uploading new software. The Cerebra v2 is a completely new start from the ground up. That is the reality of "how that turned out!" Maybe you think they should have just killed the project? Or maybe they should have just sold the product as was just to satisfy some people. Would that have been a better solution?

Apparently I said something to make you upset not real sure what that was. I made no inferences as to what they should have done because I have no idea I'm a consumer not an aquarium controller Builder. The reality of the beta test is that it failed and it's entirely possible that this second attempt could also be a failure. As a consumer the smart thing to do would be wait and see what happens which is exactly what I'm going to do.

gcarroll · Nov 27, 2018

Not upset, just want to be clear about what happened. This is an all new controller and it will continue to go through beta until they say it is ready. Can it fail? Of course. Anything is possible.

hart24601 · Nov 27, 2018

It would seem at this point to be more unlikely to succeed than fail. Or be outdated before it's released.

Cyricdark · Nov 27, 2018

hart24601 said:
It would seem at this point to be more unlikely to succeed than fail. Or be outdated before it's released.

Another thing to consider is the market has definitely changed since they initially tried to release this. At that point their competition was Apex and ghl and they were trying to fill the niche of being easier to use and in a more intuitive interface than those controllers. Since then Apex Fusion has gotten a lot better and much easier to use and the EKoral has been released and it's supposed to be intuitive in pretty easy to use. So vertex is going to have to find some other way to stand out in the market maybe with it being Raspberry Pi they can keep the cost down and maybe be the cheapest controller on the market that would certainly be the best recipe for success.

gcarroll · Nov 27, 2018

I think if Vertex was aiming at the bottom of the price range, they would have skimped a bit more on the fit and finish.

gcarroll · Nov 27, 2018

Apex will always be tough to beat. Like their name suggests, they are at the top. I think the Vertex user will be someone looking for something different than what's already on the market. I think its going to fall in that top tier becasue there really is no lower teir when it comes to controllers. What I'd like to see is that GHL construction with a simple, yet advanced user interface.

Cyricdark · Nov 27, 2018

gcarroll said:
I think if Vertex was aiming at the bottom of the price range, they would have skimped a bit more on the fit and finish.

Yeah I'm just trying to figure out where in the market it would even fit in. Ghl is the most expensive but the most rock-solid stable the Ekoral is the simplest and easiest to use in the Apex Falls somewhere in the middle of those two. With the reef keeper being no longer produced there is definitely a hole in the market in the 300 to $400 range. The only other thing I can think of is if they use the Raspberry Pi side of things to allow a extreme amount of customization and add-ons.

vetteguy53081 · Nov 27, 2018

Vertex weakness will be the amount of time that has lapsed, release of other innovative units and Lack of consumer confidence. Unless they have developed something very consumer friendly and cost effective, they will struggle to dip in to the controller market once again while obtaining respect others that ridicule them from their lapse of delivery and performance.
The Key word is Credibility and confidence for which they have destroyed on their own.
An official announcement and critical update to their beta testers would have been in order versus the silence and false promises ( which is the only thing they have delivered thus far). I realize the final product was out of their control, but we were left with suspense and wonder especially when they had ample opportunity even at trade shows to clarify issues and they chose to demonstrate a product which was promised KNOWING that they were facing difficulties.

WWIII · Nov 27, 2018

I have a lot to say about all this, but will wait. I sold my V1 just a few days ago, giving up my right to the new one once it is released. At the end of the day I think Vertex is trying their best.

DarkSky · Nov 27, 2018

WWIII said:
I have a lot to say about all this, but will wait. I sold my V1 just a few days ago, giving up my right to the new one once it is released. At the end of the day I think Vertex is trying their best.

I know a lot of people were surprised you got out. Toby claims another! (He's up to what, 18 now?)

I think the one stand out feature of the Cerebra will be the fact you don't need $130-$300 modules to do everything - every probe or monitoring thing will plug right into the head unit.

Cyricdark said:
Another thing to consider is the market has definitely changed since they initially tried to release this. At that point their competition was Apex and ghl and they were trying to fill the niche of being easier to use and in a more intuitive interface than those controllers.

Agree 100%. When this was coming out originally, Fusion wasn't quite there yet - the fact it is as good as it is really negated a lot of the simplicity the Cerebra was trying to deliver. Vertex better hope their online offering is as good or better!

Sleepydoc · Nov 28, 2018

Cyricdark said:
I think at this point the only proof I would believe is an in stock on BRS. I've lost count on how many times somebody has come up with a supposed release date. @randyBRS any idea on this controller actually being released?

gcarroll said:
Then you will have to wait becasue beta testers are getting them before BRS. Once it is put through the paces, then they will relase to retail outlets.

Cyricdark said:
At this point I would wait a lot longer than that. Lol I would want that thing to be out for a year have mostly everyone say it's great and reliable and have reviews before I would take the chance now. After all this whole beta test thing has already happened once and look how that turned out.

I’m with Cyricdark - at this point, after 2 years of false promises, missed deadlines, the only thing I would believe is a product on the shelf. Either way, As gcarroll says, this is not a revision, but a completely new product with completely new hardware and software, so anyone using it should do so with the recognition that it is a beta unit. Even if they did a great job in their development, the nature of these products means that there will be some bugs. I would probably wait a year or so after they ship the beta units before I would consider it a stable product.

Vertex has an uphill road with this - many people felt burned and they lost a lot of credibility with the release of V1. I agree with Greg that they had little choice in abandoning it and starting fresh, but the way they proceeded and the time they have taken to do so puts them in a different and worse position than they were in a few years ago. Time will tell.

shred5 · Nov 28, 2018

gcarroll said:
What I'd like to see is that GHL construction with a simple, yet advanced user interface.

That would be great for my main system and I agree.
I love the look of the GHL but to me it is hard to use and I do not have the time for that.
Fusion is nice but I have small things with the Apex that bother me.

I am looking for a pretty cost effective system for my new breeder/propagation systems. There may be up to 4 sumps and I do not want them all on the same controller.
I picked up a Apex jr when they got cheap but still need several more.
I wanted the ReefKeeper lite but they are no more as most know. The lite had a great niche for those who did not need allot and it was very stable.
This market is wide open now for someone to fill it.

BZOFIQ · Nov 28, 2018

Oooh, glad to see the discussion going - a good sign overall.

I was really hoping this would show up before end of year.

Sleepydoc · Nov 28, 2018

BZOFIQ said:
Oooh, glad to see the discussion going - a good sign overall.

I was really hoping this would show up before end of year.

It may, but given the history of the product, I would treat it like the COR pumps from Neptune. They announced them and the were coming...coming...nothing... then suddenly they just showed up. It was long after the initial timeline to the point that a lot of people had given up and there was virtually no notice from Neptune.

shred5 said:
That would be great for my main system and I agree.
I love the look of the GHL but to me it is hard to use and I do not have the time for that.
Fusion is nice but I have small things with the Apex that bother me.

I am looking for a pretty cost effective system for my new breeder/propagation systems. There may be up to 4 sumps and I do not want them all on the same controller.
I picked up a Apex jr when they got cheap but still need several more.
I wanted the ReefKeeper lite but they are no more as most know. The lite had a great niche for those who did not need allot and it was very stable.
This market is wide open now for someone to fill it.

Not asking for much, are you?

I was actuallly looking at the Vertex but rapidly dropped them from consideration because of multiple concerns I had. In hindsight I’m glad I did. I ended up going with Apex over GHL because it looked like it would fit my needs and be several hundred dollars cheaper. Overall, I’m happy. The fusion interface is relatively easy to use, with a few quirks. Programming can be as simple or complex as you want it to be, but ultimately, you’re not limited by the interface - something that I worry about with systems that try to make things too simple.

I totally get people’s hang up on the Orange color. I don’t hate it anymore. It’s more of a dislike now. If neptune would just make a black or grey version of their product, I can virtually guarantee the orange ones one collect dust! For me, everything’s under the sump, so it’s really out of sight anyway.

As far as the build quality goes, I was a bit skeptical of this, too, but in the last 2 years I’ve had zero issues. The plastic doesn’t feel as ‘beefy’ as a steel box, but it also is lighter and doesn’t rust, and ultimately, I haven’t been hearing stories about the controller or EB832 breaking, so I think that may be a problem of perception more that reality.

I don’t know much about eKoral. It looks interesting but price wise is about the same as the Apex.

Pauley · Nov 28, 2018

DarkSky said:
... Ben@Vertex said that there was no way they'd slip the date past December 22nd

LOL. Well, as long as Ben said that Vertex won't miss a deadline, we should be good.

I feel bad that these guys just never learn. Regardless of the excuse, missing a major deadline at best makes you look unprofessional and/or incompetent to your customers. But, repeatedly promising and not delivering makes you look like a liar. Everyone can make their own decision as to which best describes this company. Either way, my opinion is that most of us can agree on two things:

Vertex has no grounds to get indignant about people calling them out at this point
They have relentlessly self-inflicted wounds in terms of consumer confidence.