What Impact will the Trade Wars have on Reefing Gear

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MyReefRobbedMe

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A company that chooses to manufacture in china Knows their Tech will be hacked or stolen but continues to do so, other options exist but simply cost more. You cant blame China for that its the Greed of those company's, and China welcomes that greed with open arms....... You can blame china for stealing our Nuclear weapons program to build theirs.

A real-estate agent once told me that he hated BIG BOX hardware, He said the quality of the homes have droped significantly because of the cheap building components and I realized he was correct. When I had a house full of little ones, I was always replacing toilet seats yet when I was a kid we had the same one for years that had ware marks/ dimples from the cover. We all know the saying Cry Once ....Ask a trades person where his tools are made.

I can half agree but is Not just companies that manufacture there . It is EVERYTHING . Go buy something off eBay from Anything from Designer Name to Colgate toothpaste and 9 out of 10 it’s Fake . You CAN Blame China but PAST ADMINS is more to blame
 

George Willings

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Thats the whole point build here for Here
I get that. Until then we might see a slight price increase. But as it is, it is only American made products that are hit hard by tariffs. Most products brought into the US see only a 2.5% tariff at the most as it is right now.
 
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Thats the whole point build here for Here and Keep the Dollar in the US ....THAT Is Just as Inportant!

I can half agree but is Not just companies that manufacture there . It is EVERYTHING . Go buy something off eBay from Anything from Designer Name to Colgate toothpaste and 9 out of 10 it’s Fake . You CAN Blame China but PAST ADMINS is more to blame

I will pay more for the same item from a US seller just to keep my dollar in the states!
 

MyReefRobbedMe

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I will pay more for the same item from a US seller just to keep my dollar in the states!

haha I do too . But most them Seller’s are selling Chinese Knock offs in the first place
 

Lasse

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As I remember - there was nu tariffs on HD into EU before the 1 of June this year. But I am old and my memory is nor so good. In Sweden - it was Swedish companies that move the manufactoring jobs abroad in order to make more profit or get lower taxes - maybe its different in the US - I do not really know that.

Sincerely Lasse
 

Want2BS8ed

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Based on the US Energy Information Administration, the US has imported more crude oil and petroleum products from Canada than Saudi Arabia since 1995. And speaking of 1995, back then trade deficit from China was 33 billion dollars while the deficit with Saudi Arabia was 2 billion. The worst trade deficit between the US and Saudi Arabia between 1995-now was 42 billion in 2008 when the price of oil spiked, which at the time our trade deficit with China was 268 billion. Also according to the EIA we are still a net importer of crude oil and petroleum products, though we a slight exporter of natural gas.

It is possible I'm looking at the wrong data based on your statements, if so please show your sources.

March 25, 2018, Wall Street Journal. Some interesting graphs so I hope the link comes through.

Taking Aim at a Trade Gap? It’s Easy to Miss the Target

https://www.wsj.com/articles/taking...SxlQnPc//EUWz+w4o&reflink=article_email_share

Have to add in natural gas as well...
 

Want2BS8ed

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I use the figures in another post about size of markets - figures from 2013 and 2009 - did a fast calculation. The EU consumption as is today as large as the US. EU is still unite and we have not seen the end of the Brexit yet. A hard Brexit will shout down the British economy rather much and that´s probably the wet dreams of some persons because it will strengthen their own economical power.

Back to the origin question - will a trade war rise the cost for our hobby. Yes - a trade war will rise all costs and you can see it as a sale/trade tax and it will lower the consumption sooner or later. Lowering the consumption - losing jobs in the service sector and you will not have any problems with shortage in truck drivers. In Sweden - the service sector is more important for jobs compared with the manufacturing sector and has been that since many years ago. The slaughter of production jobs started here already during early 70:ties. The service sector had 2009 around 74 % of the jobs in Sweden.

Sincerely Lasse

The EU is not the cohesive economic unit the name would imply though - Ireland, Portugal, Italy, etc. and protectionist measures still continue even within the EU. I have witnessed it first hand.

And I wouldn’t count the UK out quite yet. May May take it on the chin, but in end the British people have spoken and it will happen.

And on our favorite topic, Triton, do you not think we haven’t seen the bite of nationalism? Last time I checked if you could find Core 7 in the US, you were still going to pay for plastic bottles you weren’t getting. I know you hate that topic, but the reality of penalty pricing outside of the EU still exists.
 

Want2BS8ed

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Hell, Harley Davidson is seeing tariffs as high as 45%, which forces them to build a plant in other countries to avoid that tariff. The US has been getting screwed for years. Just like with NATO, the US gets to foot the bill. Chinese manufacturers violate patent policies of their on a daily basis. So what this so-called trade war means is that we might see a slight increase in certain products.

I love the Harley Davidson story... it is so visual. The best thing about it and what often gets missed, is the demand for them outside of the US. And you can’t just copy a Harley.

If I were HD, I would jack my prices up 45% overseas and let demand settle out. Growth for growth’s sake isn’t always a good thing. I would rather have reasonable volume at a profit, rather than high volume at little or no profit. Hate to say it, but HD has either gotten fat and lazy or they are being greedy.

I speakith with a forked tongue though as I take Lassie to task over Triton, because that’s exactly what they have done here in the US. Profit before all else.
 

Want2BS8ed

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It's amazing that in the age of the internet - with information a click away - that people can be so uninformed. We don't make anything here anymore? The U.S. is the second largest industrial economy in the world, and our industrial sector is nearly 2x larger than Japan's, who is #3:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition

Yeah, we don't make a lot of crappy consumer goods that don't have a lot of value add. What do we make? Planes, cars, agricultural equipment, turbines, capital equipment...stuff that requires actual skill to make, which is where we have an advantage.

Imports as a % of GDP are under 15% and that number has been falling for seven years:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/259096/us-imports-as-a-percentage-of-gdp/

Furthermore, the idea that making physical objects is the only thing that matters is ridiculous. Our economy is ~70% service-based, as are most advanced economies. We have a massive advantage over every other country on the planet in services. Our companies are the envy of the world.

The general rule if you are giving a business presentation is never list Wikipedia as your source. Always list the sources on Wikipedia as your sources ;-).

Sorry running joke from the office, but I agree with your points.
 

Falcon53

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The general rule if you are giving a business presentation is never list Wikipedia as your source. Always list the sources on Wikipedia as your sources ;-).

Sorry running joke from the office, but I agree with your points.

I know these statistics off the top of my head. I only included the link because people inevitably want one and Wikipedia was the first one. The source data is accurate and thus the Wikipedia link is accurate.
 

jda

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Anybody who has bought a Chinese patent-stealing knockoff light or pump is partly to blame for this. Odyssea, Jeabo... no matter how you want spin it. There are Chinese companies that innovate, just manufacture for real patent holders and otherwise abide by the laws of free trade - it is important to separate those that abide by free-trade laws and those that do not. How come people want to blame Presidents and Governments but the regular Joe gets a pass for buying a pump because they can buy "one and a spare" for what it takes to support a good free trade business from the US or EU? I guess that it is just easier to ***** and moan and blame other people than truly do the work that needs to be done.
 

Want2BS8ed

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There is difference between the countries as it is between different states in the US. But for outsiders - it is the same rules for the whole EU and it is a common market.

Sincerely Lasse

It is on paper Lasse, but unfortunately in reality it is not a common market.

Be cautious of the term “outsider” as well, I have spent a career buying, selling and valuing businesses in the EU. Reefing is a hobby, but dancing through the “commonality” of EU regulation, labor law and anti-trust filings was my livelihood before retiring and it is anything but a unified market.

Maybe to a lay-person it seems the same because of the common currency, but any deeper than that and it unravels.

I will give a good example. Let’s say you own a chain of grocery stores across the US and Europe. For the safety of your employees and customers you have video monitoring and remote opening and closing. Fairly universal and often outsourced.

In the US you are likely to have one (maybe two) monitoring centers that handle all of the opening and closings and consolidate all of your video feeds from around the country. It saves costs and is highly efficient.

In the EU you can consolidate alarm signals and do remote opening and closing, but you can’t transmit video across borders even within the EU. Privacy? That’s the reason given, but it’s really driven by labor that doesn’t want free transferability of jobs across borders within the EU or you would see consolidation and net job loss.

Labor, or more importantly the cost of labor is really at the root of what we are discussing. How often have we seen skimmers designed in the US and Europe, copied and sold at a fraction of the cost to produce in the US and Europe? Labor and subsidies... again something that’s not necessarily “common” across the EU.
 

Want2BS8ed

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I know these statistics off the top of my head. I only included the link because people inevitably want one and Wikipedia was the first one. The source data is accurate and thus the Wikipedia link is accurate.

Not questioning the accuracy and the intended humor was lost in the sterility of a forum post. Please accept my apologies.

I have had junior analyst source Wikipedia in slide decks. The conversation went something like “yeah, we are asking the Board of Directors for US$ 350 million. The original data came from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Let’s reference them instead, huh?”

My all time favorite though, we once had a Board Member who absolutely loathed the one analyst that did an annual industry review in a niche market. It was THE de facto source used by every competitor and widely quoted, but you guessed it, we were not allowed to source anything going in front of the Board from that analyst. Many hours spent tracking down alternate sources to backstop what we already knew.
 

Falcon53

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Not questioning the accuracy and the intended humor was lost in the sterility of a forum post. Please accept my apologies.

I have had junior analyst source Wikipedia in slide decks. The conversation went something like “yeah, we are asking the Board of Directors for US$ 350 million. The original data came from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Let’s reference them instead, huh?”

My all time favorite though, we once had a Board Member who absolutely loathed the one analyst that did an annual industry review in a niche market. It was THE de facto source used by every competitor and widely quoted, but you guessed it, we were not allowed to source anything going in front of the Board from that analyst. Many hours spent tracking down alternate sources to backstop what we already knew.

I hear you. It's nice to have a Bloomberg terminal and access to all kinds of other data!
 

Want2BS8ed

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Anybody who has bought a Chinese patent-stealing knockoff light or pump is partly to blame for this. Odyssea, Jeabo... no matter how you want spin it. There are Chinese companies that innovate, just manufacture for real patent holders and otherwise abide by the laws of free trade - it is important to separate those that abide by free-trade laws and those that do not. How come people want to blame Presidents and Governments but the regular Joe gets a pass for buying a pump because they can buy "one and a spare" for what it takes to support a good free trade business from the US or EU? I guess that it is just easier to ***** and moan and blame other people than truly do the work that needs to be done.

Or spend the money to do what needs to be done. Look at Triton’s experience with pumps on their own system. They tracked an excess of heavy metals to inexpensive pumps that was eliminated when they switched to Abyzz.

I have an Abyzz on my main return line, but I can’t afford one to either run or feed my external skimmer. A Baldor driven reeflo runs the skimmer, but the feed pump is a Vectra. An American company, but the pump is made in China - out of necessity I’m just as guilty and just as big a hypocrite.
 

gcarroll

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Sorry. I’m done w this thread. My reply to u would be..... I own a small s Corp. I employ but 9 people. These tax cuts help Me a great deal as well as put more $$ in my employees pockets. I was able to buy 7 brand new trucks and a bunch of much needed equipment. You obviously know Nothing about what a corporate tax cut means for all business. You sound like you just brushed up on ur fake news! Sorry I can’t explain this to you for like I said I’m done w this thread. If I were to reply that’s probably what I’d say. In addition I believe our latest spending bill is an absolute disaster. Other than the fact our soldiers all got a well needed raise for doing all they do for all of us. Our military should be our #1 priority and I’m very happy to see them get the respect and support they have been lacking for too long. Ps. It makes me fall over in my chair when a Liberal even can spit the word fiscal responsibility. I guess you didn’t notice the absolute Enormous debt we are in from ur messiah ( Previous President). I’m sorry I can’t explain that to you, really wanted too.
Sorry to see you go. I would respond but the we have been asked to keep this thread non-political.

O ya I don't want anything in or around my reef from China o no...
Good luck with that. I for one know how hard it is!

Anybody who has bought a Chinese patent-stealing knockoff light or pump is partly to blame for this. Odyssea, Jeabo... no matter how you want spin it. There are Chinese companies that innovate, just manufacture for real patent holders and otherwise abide by the laws of free trade - it is important to separate those that abide by free-trade laws and those that do not. How come people want to blame Presidents and Governments but the regular Joe gets a pass for buying a pump because they can buy "one and a spare" for what it takes to support a good free trade business from the US or EU? I guess that it is just easier to ***** and moan and blame other people than truly do the work that needs to be done.
Not trying to defend those Chinese companies but... The aquatics industry has very few real patents. Not only that, the entire industry tends to copy each other. And I'm not even talking about the Chinese companies.
 
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