What Impact will the Trade Wars have on Reefing Gear
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Why would you think I'm ticked? I'm just enjoying the thread. I can actually debate both sides of the coin, I mostly ask questions to peak peoples interest an encourage them to think. For me I like to understand why people take the positions that they. Kind of my own little social experiment. Based on responses to me, it is apparent @siggy recognizes it so that show that I'm not really being deceptive. See this example:
I like to debate, it's in my DNA. Politics or reefing it doesn't matter. But sometimes feelings are hurt. As I have apologized to others, I will also apologize to you if any of my comments offended you or any others out there.
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With the word that EU is a common market for outsiders I ment that the rules for trade into the EU is the same. You deal with the EU as one unit. And that you can´t transmitt video signals cross the borders inside EU was a new story - we do have Internet here too.
And it is a consumer market worth nearly the same as the consumer market in the US.
And as an information - Brexit has not happen yet - it will happen 29 of march 2019. Today - nobody knows how it will happen - there is no agreement.
Back to the origin question - Yes it will affect the price on reefing gears. The origin tariffs are nothing else than a way to tax consumption but it is dressed in a way what it looks like something else.
Sincerely Lasse
And it is a consumer market worth nearly the same as the consumer market in the US.
And as an information - Brexit has not happen yet - it will happen 29 of march 2019. Today - nobody knows how it will happen - there is no agreement.
Back to the origin question - Yes it will affect the price on reefing gears. The origin tariffs are nothing else than a way to tax consumption but it is dressed in a way what it looks like something else.
Sincerely Lasse
Want2BS8ed
Active Member
I just looked for pumps made in the USA and Pentair popped up ......also Sthil tools...I have those
Are they still made in the US?
Awesome pick. Didn't Pentair do an inversion to move there tax domicile out of the US to either Switzerland or Ireland or some place like that?
Danner, Dolphin, ReeFlo, Oceans Motion, Hamilton, Sea Swirl, LifeReef, GEO are among the US Based businesses that support reefing - most manufacturer here as well. There are more that I am missing... my apologies to any of them. AquaMedic and Tunze are in Germany, but they have a supplier and presence in the US with employees and stuff. For me, it is US first (this can be hard), EU second (this is not so hard) and never China Knock off (I do not care if a real/legit company manufacturers their own design in China - I just do not buy from the Patent/IP stealing companies). I do have a Japanese made Iwaki in storage, so I guess Japan third.
OP
OP
That appears to be the trend FCX is listed in the UK I believe, yet they have no presents there. Yes with your list origins, totaly agree Germany makes some good stuff and my doser is coming from there. My Jebco (new) 1 pump is grinding and I dont trust it. That Famous auction site has 15% today so its a done deal from a us dealer at least the profits from the sale stay here
@jda yes it is true they dont recognize patents but those going there KNOW THIS! It is agreed that all intellectual property will be disclosed or you dont do biz there. Thats the rub! they will supply the slave labor and are willing to pollute their environment for your hard work and $$$$
I almost lost a company to Chinese IP theft... I know about this more than most people and it took years off of my life. Thankfully, we did not. Most people know that this is possible now, but China signed all kinds of trade agreements years ago, gave assurances and they make it perfectly clear that they would not steal your designs if you build there. We now know that these are lies, but nobody knew then. Because of this is why some manufacturing in the US is up a bit, or some has moved to Mexico and other areas. This is not as large of an issue as it was since word is out, but is still politicized - the current big issue is that you have to legally give patents away for access to sell your product in their market.
If an American company wants to give up their IP to build the stuff for cheaper, then they get what they deserve... the good and the bad. It is the ones that were deceived that I have a problem with.
The sad thing is that all of this takes decades to change...
Thankfully, we did not. Most people know that this is possible now, but China signed all kinds of trade agreements years ago, gave assurances and they make it perfectly clear that they would not steal your designs if you build there. We now know that these are lies, but nobody knew then. Because of this is why some manufacturing in the US is up a bit, or some has moved to Mexico and other areas. This is not as large of an issue as it was since word is out, but is still politicized - the current big issue is that you have to legally give patents away for access to sell your product in their market.If an American company wants to give up their IP to build the stuff for cheaper, then they get what they deserve... the good and the bad. It is the ones that were deceived that I have a problem with.
The sad thing is that all of this takes decades to change...
Want2BS8ed
Active Member
That really is the point Lasse, the EU does not operate as a single unified market. Yes there are rules of trade within the EU, but how they are interpreted and how they are applied is very different in each country. It is one of the underpinning failures of the EU. There is a lot of bark there, but very little bite for enforcement.
It is disingenuous to characterize the EU as a contiguous economic block compared to China or the US. It is similar to saying Canada and Mexico should be lumped in with the US when we know intuitively that's not the case.
I appreciate centrist in Europe, WANT it to be that way, but in reality it simply is not.
On paper yes, in reality it really is not.
No it hasn't happened yet, but for those not following along T. May has now lost her top three negotiators and she is endorsing a weak plan calling for a soft exit. British conservatives are on fire and we are likely to see a confidence vote and May's exit before BREXIT. The only thing that is certain is that it is a giant mess.
Really Lasse? Before the whole current cufluffule started the EU charged a 10% tax on vehicles imported into the EU from the US and other countries. The US only charged a 2.5% duty (source: WSJ)
How is that fair? Where is the parity? Is it not the absolute pinnacle of hypocrisy to get indignant when the US says enough is enough?
I am the farthest creature you will ever find from an isolationist, but there has to be balance and the scales have been tilted for far to long by weak kneed apologist in Washington (both right and left, both Democrat and Republican).
If that means prices for European reef keeping equipment goes up, than so be it. I will make the decision to either continue to purchase or go back to buying chemicals and rolling my own 3-part (not such a bad option given that ATI and Triton expect self mixing once again).
Good to know. On my phone and finally found a little more information. HQ'd in Northern Ireland, so domiciled in the UK for tax purposes. I never realized they had grown so large before jettisoning their tool division to Black and Decker.
Fascinating stuff either way.
Any time. Unfortunately, I know too much about this and it makes me mad when any politician or "opinion show" host mucks it up for a talking point. Nobody really gets it right on any TV channel.
Want2BS8ed
Active Member
Hear, hear! Sound bites sell not reality. Glad to hear you survived your experience. Most don’t.
We have a close family friend that recently passed. He owned an industrial sewing machine business that supplied the largest denim jean makers in the US. When NAFTA rolled along and tariffs disappeared production followed cheaper labor into Mexico.
Unfortunately the equipment didn’t move to Mexico. The plants were set-up with knock-off machines from China using stolen proprietary designs. With the loss of customers, there wasn’t money to pursue the patent violations. The company folded.
Not only were the jobs lost in the garment industry, but the knock-on shuttered a small industrial company as well.
With an agreement of free trade that problem had be solved directly.
Sincerely Lasse
Sincerely Lasse
You won't know for years. The recent rise was because of stuff that happened years ago. Any effects of a trade war will need time for farmers (for example, as one the many Chinese targets) to start to suffer, deplete their savings, slow down their purchases, foreclose some, have markets tank and otherwise put a strain on their small communities which then put a strain on the larger communities and states and then the nation as a whole... all of this takes time. Administrations cannot wait to blame bad stuff on the past guy and take credit for the good stuff, but the truth is that all of this stuff lags almost in linear precision. You will know in 2 to 4 years how this works out.
It is unfortunate, but the targets of trade wars are the first to suffer and last to recover.
It is unfortunate, but the targets of trade wars are the first to suffer and last to recover.
OP
OP
Hostess Brands (twinkies) where located in the north suburb of Detroit and moved everything to mexico two three years ago. My in-law had 28 years and lost everything, of course the workers gave a mile but it wasn't enough.
Has anyone tried that product recently? ;Vomit
Has anyone tried that product recently? ;Vomit
Want2BS8ed
Active Member
Absolutely! I rather liked the suggestion from the German Auto Industry that tariffs be removed entirely on both sides. Preferably before December when the lease on my I3 comes up...
See we can agree on something Lasse. Now can you get Triton to stop overcharging everyone else around the world and reduce prices as they did in the EU for converting to the cheaper milk cartons?
Forsaken77
Valuable Member
It's not just goods being imported from overseas, it's entire companies relocating overseas because it's cheaper all around. And that's including tax breaks and state incentives that just don't seem to be enough. Even though a lot of these places are making money hand ovet fist, they still leave because it all comes down to the shareholders.
I used to work for Symbol Technologies. For those that don't know, they developed and manufactured all of those bar code scanners you see in every check out aisle or for package delivery scans, ect...
Their HQ, QA, and manufacturing was all done in NY, on Long Island. Their old HQ building later became an HQ for Motorola and changed into the Development lab for Motorola after they were acquired (with 600 employees in this 1 building). Huge building and only 1 out of 6 that Symbol used to occupy.
This was a company (Symbol) that routinely offered double and triple time to people that wanted to work on their days off. More than enough work to go around.
Years ago they packed up everything and moved the whole company to Mexico for cheaper labor. They offered relocation but I don't work for pesos .
Just one example of a huge US based company that jumped ship and took the kitchen sink with them. They didn't just move the manufacturing, they moved the entire company!
This is the problem we have gotten ourselves into. Getting out is the tough part. If only we elected people based on ideals, rather than party affiliation. The large corporations have also lowered the wages they pay employees. That's part of why the middle class has all but disappeared. These tax breaks should be a reason to increase wages on non-management positions, which would enable better class of living, and make buying US goods more feasable. But we all know that won't happen. Because Wall Street is all that matters to most big corps.. But at least everyone with a portfolio is happy.
I used to work for Symbol Technologies. For those that don't know, they developed and manufactured all of those bar code scanners you see in every check out aisle or for package delivery scans, ect...
Their HQ, QA, and manufacturing was all done in NY, on Long Island. Their old HQ building later became an HQ for Motorola and changed into the Development lab for Motorola after they were acquired (with 600 employees in this 1 building). Huge building and only 1 out of 6 that Symbol used to occupy.
This was a company (Symbol) that routinely offered double and triple time to people that wanted to work on their days off. More than enough work to go around.
Years ago they packed up everything and moved the whole company to Mexico for cheaper labor. They offered relocation but I don't work for pesos .
Just one example of a huge US based company that jumped ship and took the kitchen sink with them. They didn't just move the manufacturing, they moved the entire company!
This is the problem we have gotten ourselves into. Getting out is the tough part. If only we elected people based on ideals, rather than party affiliation. The large corporations have also lowered the wages they pay employees. That's part of why the middle class has all but disappeared. These tax breaks should be a reason to increase wages on non-management positions, which would enable better class of living, and make buying US goods more feasable. But we all know that won't happen. Because Wall Street is all that matters to most big corps.. But at least everyone with a portfolio is happy.
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