What is a "Mature Reef Tank"?

[ReefLife_Guy]

I think we will have to agree, to disagree on the answer. It is just as vague as it needs to be, considering being massive variability in acceptable conditions.

I do honestly believe that is the best answer. It's a lot better than, "It depends"

If JUST to be able to survive is the goal, personally, I think that's a bad goal. We should be trying to create an environment where they can Thrive.

Agreeing to disagree is fine, but I think as good stewards of reefing it is our responsibility to provide the best available evidence to people seeking answers. Responding with a vague answer either leads someone to seek better/more specific answers or to do their own experimenting, rarely does it seem to make people steer away from making any attempt. I agree the goal of husbandry is not a minimum of survivability but to provide the best environment for animals using the best currently available information. From reading 100s of threads of people making "rookie" mistakes, easily preventable by having the right knowledge, it is my opinion that more specific answers (even if they are different from person to person or are not all-encompassing) are more likely to lead someone to success rather than experimenting with an animals life.

My purpose for opening this up for discussion was just to provide insight into my struggle seeking out information on this topic, as I am sure I am not the only one to feel frustration as new reefer trying to do things the right way. Also, I hope this discussion can help advance this area of reefing and reduce mistakes made by new reefers and ultimately better the lives of the animals we care for in our homes.

 

[dvgyfresh]

My first anemone slowly melted and died a couple months after introducing it , I kept stable parameters and water changed weekly. The one thing I was missing was tank maturity, the nem looked healthy as ever until it didn’t. There is something on a micro fauna - bacterial level that is needed for nems to survive, hard to pinpoint that but after introducing live rock I have not had that issue

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Agreeing to disagree is fine, but I think as good stewards of reefing it is our responsibility to provide the best available evidence to people seeking answers. Responding with a vague answer either leads someone to seek better/more specific answers or to do their own experimenting, rarely does it seem to make people steer away from making any attempt.

I Understand where you are coming from. You got a 3-month-old tank and are hungry for information . The information you want to be specific . I Get that.

Just because you believe my answer is not sufficient, doesn't make it wrong. You aren't the first and aren't the last one to ask. The answer doesn't really change. We don't know what Specifically it is in a mature tank, That benefits, housing anenome. There's a lot of conjecture onto the topic but the truth of the matter is we just do not know, and (anecdotally) overwhelmingly, issues with anemones come from immature tanks.

I agree the goal of husbandry is not a minimum of survivability but to provide the best environment for animals using the best currently available information. From reading 100s of threads of people making "rookie" mistakes, easily preventable by having the right knowledge, it is my opinion that more specific answers (even if they are different from person to person or are not all-encompassing) are more likely to lead someone to success rather than experimenting with an animals life.

Unfortunately at this point, The answer that you seek does not really exist. Don't just Read threads on here. Read all over the web. If you find it, Please come back with information and source it. We are all hungry for the same knowledge. Sometimes the best answer is accepting the best answer even though it's not the one you want, or think it should be. This is a very inexact science, More bordering on art.

Imo The biggest killer of anemone in this hobby by the numbers is immature tanks, and unguarded devices within the tank. One of these is Completely preventable.

It has been known since powerheads were put into tanks that when a nem walks into it, It's a very bad thing.

There are thousands of reefers on this site, Right Now with nems and unguarded powerheads in the same tank. Having the information doesn't necessarily help, If it isn't applied.

My purpose for opening this up for discussion was just to provide insight into my struggle seeking out information on this topic, as I am sure I am not the only one to feel frustration as new reefer trying to do things the right way. Also, I hope this discussion can help advance this area of reefing and reduce mistakes made by new reefers and ultimately better the lives of the animals we care for in our homes.

I'm glad you opened it up for discussion. I think it's a prudent conversation that should be had every once in a while to see if the general population of anenome keepers have stumbled into the secret sauce.

I hope you and I can have this conversation again in a year, when your personal tank (, love the rock arch) Has mature. I'd like to know your observations between now and then. When did you think your tank had matured? What seemed to change?

 

[The Farmer]

A mature tank to me is when you make a Chnage and you see the changes that were made a few days to week later, in other words stabile and self sustained tank will show signs of the change immediately. Just my .02 cent

 

[Taylor t]

Mature

1: based on slow careful considerationa mature judgment
2a(1): having completed natural growth and development : RIPEmature fruit
(2): having undergone maturation
b: having attained a final or desired statemature wine
c: having achieved a low but stable growth ratepaper is a mature industry
d: of, relating to, or being an older adult : ELDERLYairline discounts for maturetravelers
3a: of or relating to a condition of full developmenta man of mature years



Yes, mature is good. When I hear that word I just simply think, “time”. I suspect those that use the word “mature” for reef tanks, intend to convey it needs time, for stabilization, and reefer learning. The time given for anemones is +-6 months. It’s not exactly the time frame that needs to be in place. I believe the 6 month rule is so the REEFER can learn how the tank runs and how it drops and things that happen before introducing more delicate life. I suspect it’s a learning curve for the reefer, not things that need to be in place. If someone is smart enough to understand about biology, how decomposition affects water chemistry, and understands the marine life cycles, rock cycles, chemical levels and how they change, no time is needed to house an anemone, fill it today and drop one in!
...but those of us that do this don’t advertise this, it takes experience.

but I think everyone saying 6 months is good, so the REEFER learns enough to be successful. Can I put an anemone in a 10 gallon today and have success? Yep. Do I or would I recommend it? Heck no!

I enjoy life and like maintaining a reef tank with little to no effort, little to no loss. My opinion, and experience

 

[Taylor t]

Lost in sauce: I love how you consider yourself “a functioning idiot”

ME TOO!!!

 

[Dan_P]

I could not find a similar post, so I wanted to start a thread to see what others think….

What exactly is a "Mature Reef Tank"? Or what does it mean to have a mature tank?

While this phrase is probably used in every area of the hobby, I found it used particularly often when a new hobbyist is talking about adding an anemone to their tank for the first time. From the numerous threads I have read, it seems almost reflexively for at least one of the responses to be “It is only recommended to add an anemone to….” a “…mature reef tank” or “…an established reef tank” or “….a tank that is at least 6 months to 1 year old”.

My question is…What does that even mean? Maybe the meaning is different depending on the application? If someone wants to add a dragonet to their tank, maybe an “established tank” is one with a healthy copepod population. For anemones it seems stable water parameters, flow, and lighting are key for success, if you have all of these is your tank “mature”? I think using these terms without defining them is a disservice to the hobby and produce a lot of frustration among beginners in the hobby. This is especially true when they wait the “magic” 6 months, add an anemone, and it dies within a week, crashing their whole tank.

One of many meaningless terms in this hobby It conveys no useful, if any, information.

 

[Jedi1199]

When the tank says "back in MY day, we did...."

 

[bstodds15]

Good discussion!! I would say a reef is "mature" when it achieves stability and also diversity in fauna. It becomes a system that is (at some level) self-sustaining.

I agree - my interpretation of a “mature tank” is one that has no nuisance algae outbreaks, diseases, random deaths or issues in general. you can bypass a lot of issues by buying the right equipment.

As far as nems go, I feel like most “newbies” lose them to equipment issues.
Think how many people have had them get sucked into a power head because it didn’t have a guard, or a filter intake on a hob or canister - or even just cheap lights.

if you have stable parameters and adequate lighting, they shouldn’t give you too much of a hassle.

 

[glency]

I put a BTA in my tank at 2 months. The tips never popped. It otherwise looked healthy and happy until it died.
I'm now at near 7 months and still not game to put another in.

This. Was super excited for the symbiotic relationship. Put a nem in at 2 months. Looked great for two, then died. Quickly.

 

[glency]

@Jekyl posted this in a similar thread I started,and I liked it- “I'm a firm believer that there are things that can't be measured that are provided by a mature tank. Along with that comes a more knowledgeable reefer. Are you more comfortable at Grandma's house or a sterile operating room?”

 

[radiata]

Anybody have any considerations on what defines an over-the-hill reef tank? My DT has 20+ years on it. Is it geriatric? Is it time to put it out of its misery? Is it time to spend more money and replace it with something "better"?

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Anybody have any considerations on what defines an over-the-hill reef tank? My DT has 20+ years on it. Is it geriatric? Is it time to put it out of its misery? Is it time to spend more money and replace it with something "better"?

Does it have its own will? Might be time for a nursing home.

 

[Miami Reef]

I’d personally say the tank is mature when the new algae stage is over and under control. As long as algae/dinos aren’t suffocating the corals, they should do fine as long as all the other parameters are within range.

A “mature” (experienced) reefer is more important than a mature tank IMO.

 

[radiata]

Does it have its own will? Might be time for a nursing home.

I wonder if they'll let me take it with me into my nursing home!

 

[Michael ross1]

I could not find a similar post, so I wanted to start a thread to see what others think….

What exactly is a "Mature Reef Tank"? Or what does it mean to have a mature tank?

While this phrase is probably used in every area of the hobby, I found it used particularly often when a new hobbyist is talking about adding an anemone to their tank for the first time. From the numerous threads I have read, it seems almost reflexively for at least one of the responses to be “It is only recommended to add an anemone to….” a “…mature reef tank” or “…an established reef tank” or “….a tank that is at least 6 months to 1 year old”.

My question is…What does that even mean? Maybe the meaning is different depending on the application? If someone wants to add a dragonet to their tank, maybe an “established tank” is one with a healthy copepod population. For anemones it seems stable water parameters, flow, and lighting are key for success, if you have all of these is your tank “mature”? I think using these terms without defining them is a disservice to the hobby and produce a lot of frustration among beginners in the hobby. This is especially true when they wait the “magic” 6 months, add an anemone, and it dies within a week, crashing their whole tank.

I added an annome to my tank.... I was nervous because of everything saying an established reef tank only ..... It made me nervous but I put one in each tank and mine split in two already so I'm doing something right I guess

 

[PeterEde]

At 7 months am trying again.
I got forrest fire nem cheap

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Lost in sauce: I love how you consider yourself “a functioning idiot”

ME TOO!!!

If the two different shoes fit....

 

[RubyU235]

I have found that once your easy corals like your zoas, gsp, clove ployps, coralimorphs and the like start to exhibit growth then your tank has matured. This is all of course contingent on your setup like appropriate lighting, good filtration, and solid practices and habits.

I also think once you find your parameters stay relatively constant, aside from your major and minor elements depending on what you dose and what is consuming things in your tank, with only adding fresh water and the occasional salt mixture to maintain salinity from salt creep loss your tank has matured.

 

[Pankney72]

Yes that’s why I think it’s not really a great response to someone’s question of when is the right time for them to add an anemone. Your response here at least gives people more defined goals to achieve before they attempt getting one. Ideally we could have even more specific guidelines as to which of these matters most to the health of an anemone. While I’m sure many experts would agree a diverse microbiome is beneficial for any reef tank, is this required for you to have thriving anemones? Also aren’t you always balancing nutrients in your water and the risk for nuisance algae? Are people who do regular water changes, have stable nitrates/phosphates and lighting, having undesirable algae blooms? Stability seems to be key to success for anemones. If those ideal water parameters are stable for a period of time you wouldn’t expect unpredictable algae or bacterial blooms right?

So could we not just say, if you can keep xyz parameters in xyz range and not have them fluctuate more than xyz% in a xyz time frame then your tank is stable enough to attempt keeping an anemone? Every situation is of course unique and requires different kinds of troubleshooting but if we could define some minimum guidelines like this for success, at least people will have a quantifiable way of knowing when they are “ready”.

Because it would take one person running many tanks in controlled circumstances only varying one parameter at a time for many months at a time then doing statistics to come up with the numbers you want.

then it would require someone to be able to replicate the results. The money and impetus just isn’t there for a hobby.

big part of tank maturity is giving the owner time to learn from mistakes and get to into a routine.