What is killing my fish one by one?

[njm1578]

So just when I think I have my tank where it needs to be, I'm thrown for a loop once again. I have a 150G Waterbox tank that's been up and running for 2 years with proper water levels across the board, yet I came down with what I thought was ich, but now I'm thinking it could be velvet and I wanted some opinions with the pictures I've attached.

Over the last two weeks I've been consistently losing fish and I thought the white spots on their bodies were ich, but I wanted some second opinions. I just lost my tomato fish and it's a consistent amount of white/black within it's gills/body. My blue hippo has been active and appeared to have similar spots last week, but now seems lively and is the least of my concern, but my other tang went through a bad case last week and is extremely torn up looking with what I assumed were cuts from scratching up against the rock, but it seems like everyday there is a new dark spot appearing on his body.

Does this look like Ich, Velvet, or another disease? I've lost several fish before I was able to get a quarantine tank up and running, and at this point I'm wondering if this will even save the few fish left in the tank still active. Currently there's a green chromis, snowflake clown, spotted goby, blue hippo tang, and surgeon tang still in the tank, but I've curious if this is going to continue jumping from fish to fish like it has been. My concern is that I know I'll have a tough time catching the goby and keeping the tank fallow, yet I know this is going to be the best option. I'd like to add that I've been dosing the tank with Kick Ich the last week since I didn't want to lost my coral/inverts, but clearly it doesn't seem to be working. The pics below are of my clown in the sump before it eventually passed, and the others are recent pics of the tangs in my DT.

 

[Hogan]

This might help

The difference between ich & velvet

Many people have a hard time telling the difference between ich & velvet, or incorrectly assume all "white spots" are ich. Below are some pics of a Hippo Tang - the first one has ich, the next 4 show velvet. Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) - Oval shaped white dots, can usually be counted. These...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks like velvet and a very quick killer. With ich, you can generally count the dots whereas with velvet, it represents the solar system as in the case of your tang. velvet spots on the fish that are much finer than the spots seen in Ich making it harder to catch until in cases too late to treat.
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target "Oodinium".

 

[njm1578]

This might help

The difference between ich & velvet

Many people have a hard time telling the difference between ich & velvet, or incorrectly assume all "white spots" are ich. Below are some pics of a Hippo Tang - the first one has ich, the next 4 show velvet. Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) - Oval shaped white dots, can usually be counted. These...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks. I looked at this before posting, but it still neither consistently resemble what I've been seeing on my fish so far. All of the fish have developed dark scales ( I assume to infection in their gills ) but not all of the fish have shown white spots in a consistent fashion.

I've forgot to mention, but I've been adding focus, metroplex, kanaplex, and garlic during their daily mysis shrimp feedings, but to no avail.

 

[njm1578]

Looks like velvet and a very quick killer. With ich, you can generally count the dots whereas with velvet, it represents the solar system as in the case of your tang. velvet spots on the fish that are much finer than the spots seen in Ich making it harder to catch until in cases too late to treat.
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target "Oodinium".

Thanks Vetteguy. I was afraid to hear this, but I figured the same. I'll get the QT up and running and hope that I can catch the goby so I can run it fallow and hope that I can save what is left in the tank.

Is there a chance that the blue hippo and snowflake clownfish could have had velvet and beat it, or do you think it will still catch up to them and kill them? They were both bad a week ago, but seem to be much better now. I don't mind pulling them into QT if need be, but the thought of adding any more unnecessary stress is worrisome.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So just when I think I have my tank where it needs to be, I'm thrown for a loop once again. I have a 150G Waterbox tank that's been up and running for 2 years with proper water levels across the board, yet I came down with what I thought was ich, but now I'm thinking it could be velvet and I wanted some opinions with the pictures I've attached.

Over the last two weeks I've been consistently losing fish and I thought the white spots on their bodies were ich, but I wanted some second opinions. I just lost my tomato fish and it's a consistent amount of white/black within it's gills/body. My blue hippo has been active and appeared to have similar spots last week, but now seems lively and is the least of my concern, but my other tang went through a bad case last week and is extremely torn up looking with what I assumed were cuts from scratching up against the rock, but it seems like everyday there is a new dark spot appearing on his body.

Does this look like Ich, Velvet, or another disease? I've lost several fish before I was able to get a quarantine tank up and running, and at this point I'm wondering if this will even save the few fish left in the tank still active. Currently there's a green chromis, snowflake clown, spotted goby, blue hippo tang, and surgeon tang still in the tank, but I've curious if this is going to continue jumping from fish to fish like it has been. My concern is that I know I'll have a tough time catching the goby and keeping the tank fallow, yet I know this is going to be the best option. I'd like to add that I've been dosing the tank with Kick Ich the last week since I didn't want to lost my coral/inverts, but clearly it doesn't seem to be working. The pics below are of my clown in the sump before it eventually passed, and the others are recent pics of the tangs in my DT.

I'm seeing multiple possible issues here. The hepatus tang has ich. The clown may also have ich, but it looks like something beat it up pretty badly. The surgeon also looks like something has been biting it. Trouble is - none of the remaining fish would be likely suspects in an aggression issue!

Kick Ich often does not work for people, especially with advanced cases of ich.

The way to tell ich from velvet is that ich will have discrete white spots to start with, advancing to generalized cloudiness to the skin and eyes as the infection progresses. Velvet starts with rapid breathing followed by quick death. Sometimes, towards the end, you'll see a dusting of spots. Flukes will show a general "bedraggled" appearance to the fish, sometimes wiht rapid breathing, other times not. Fish can have more than one of these diseases at a time though.

Your best bet would be if you could give get these fish a FW dip to help clear any flukes, and then move them into a treatment tank and dose with copper right away.


Jay

 

[njm1578]

I'm seeing multiple possible issues here. The hepatus tang has ich. The clown may also have ich, but it looks like something beat it up pretty badly. The surgeon also looks like something has been biting it. Trouble is - none of the remaining fish would be likely suspects in an aggression issue!

Kick Ich often does not work for people, especially with advanced cases of ich.

The way to tell ich from velvet is that ich will have discrete white spots to start with, advancing to generalized cloudiness to the skin and eyes as the infection progresses. Velvet starts with rapid breathing followed by quick death. Sometimes, towards the end, you'll see a dusting of spots. Flukes will show a general "bedraggled" appearance to the fish, sometimes wiht rapid breathing, other times not. Fish can have more than one of these diseases at a time though.

Your best bet would be if you could give get these fish a FW dip to help clear any flukes, and then move them into a treatment tank and dose with copper right away.


Jay

Oddly enough all of the fish started to become very beat up looking in their tails/bodies, but there has never been any aggression amongst any of the fish to cause this. I think whatever infected them led to this, but who knows what happens in the middle of the night. I believe the surgeons are self inflicted from aggressively rubbing against the rocks, but there seems to be a new wound every day even as it rubs less.

I'm not seeing the sliminess that I'm hearing comes with Velvet, which is why I'm honestly stumped. I don't disagree that it could all be ich, the more I look at pictures of flukes I believe this could also be the culprit. All of the fish that died all looked very beat up and bedraggled look you mentioned, followed up by their loss of appetite and heavy breathing that eventually led to their death. I was really hoping it wouldn't affect all of the fish in the tank, but at this point it seems to be a consistent killer. Now I'm just determining whether the QT stress is more or less damaging than waiting it out. The snowflake, hippo, and goby seem fine, but I'm monitoring them all closely. The surgeon tang is the most beat up, so I'll give it a day or so to see if they make improvement, then I'll have to look at setting up a QT. Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Oddly enough all of the fish started to become very beat up looking in their tails/bodies, but there has never been any aggression amongst any of the fish to cause this. I think whatever infected them led to this, but who knows what happens in the middle of the night. I believe the surgeons are self inflicted from aggressively rubbing against the rocks, but there seems to be a new wound every day even as it rubs less.

I'm not seeing the sliminess that I'm hearing comes with Velvet, which is why I'm honestly stumped. I don't disagree that it could all be ich, the more I look at pictures of flukes I believe this could also be the culprit. All of the fish that died all looked very beat up and bedraggled look you mentioned, followed up by their loss of appetite and heavy breathing that eventually led to their death. I was really hoping it wouldn't affect all of the fish in the tank, but at this point it seems to be a consistent killer. Now I'm just determining whether the QT stress is more or less damaging than waiting it out. The snowflake, hippo, and goby seem fine, but I'm monitoring them all closely. The surgeon tang is the most beat up, so I'll give it a day or so to see if they make improvement, then I'll have to look at setting up a QT. Thanks

Well, can you try a FW dip on the surgeonfish, to see if flukes drop off?

Jay

 

[njm1578]

Well, can you try a FW dip on the surgeonfish, to see if flukes drop off?

Jay

I certainly can, but will removing the flukes be a temporary fix, or a permanent fix? I was under the assumption I'd still have to QT them, and I was just trying to keep stressing him to a minimum if possible. I did a freshwater dip on a blue tang earlier this week when he was in a similar state, and ended up losing him shortly after the dip so I've been a bit on edge with trying it again. I'm happy to do it if you think it could be a longer term cure, otherwise I was going to give it a day or two and try them try it, but I also know every day counts and things escalate quickly

 

[SlugSnorter]

Looks like velvet and a very quick killer. With ich, you can generally count the dots whereas with velvet, it represents the solar system as in the case of your tang. velvet spots on the fish that are much finer than the spots seen in Ich making it harder to catch until in cases too late to treat.
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target "Oodinium".

the first fish looks like Uronema to me, that pale, almost burn like line. Can this happen with velvet?

 

[SlugSnorter]

I certainly can, but will removing the flukes be a temporary fix, or a permanent fix? I was under the assumption I'd still have to QT them, and I was just trying to keep stressing him to a minimum if possible. I did a freshwater dip on a blue tang earlier this week when he was in a similar state, and ended up losing him shortly after the dip so I've been a bit on edge with trying it again. I'm happy to do it if you think it could be a longer term cure, otherwise I was going to give it a day or two and try them try it, but I also know every day counts and things escalate quickly

Temp fix. But it will help ID and at least somewhat delay death

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks Vetteguy. I was afraid to hear this, but I figured the same. I'll get the QT up and running and hope that I can catch the goby so I can run it fallow and hope that I can save what is left in the tank.

Is there a chance that the blue hippo and snowflake clownfish could have had velvet and beat it, or do you think it will still catch up to them and kill them? They were both bad a week ago, but seem to be much better now. I don't mind pulling them into QT if need be, but the thought of adding any more unnecessary stress is worrisome.

I’ve beaten it twice