Can't find much on it other than on seneye website is that its not toxic. And have seen my levels all the way up to 16ppb and now in new system around 9ppb.
What is it?
What is it?
What is NH4? Proper levels for reef tank and how to maintain those levels?
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Randy Holmes-Farley
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Ignore their claim. It's both misleading, and not really true.
NH4+ is ammonium. It is ammonia with a hydrogen ion attached.
Ammonia and ammonium are in instantaneous equilibrium
NH3 + H+ <--> NH4+
You always have both (if you have either one) and the ratio in seawater at normal temps depends only on pH.
I do not know if those values are real or not, since Seneye has some issues, but it is below the level that I would act:
Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
"My suggestion is to take some sort of corrective action if the total ammonia rises above 0.1 ppm (100 ppb). This suggestion is also made by Stephen Spotte in his authoritative text, Captive Seawater Fishes. Values in excess of 0.25 ppm total ammonia may require immediate treatment, preferably involving removal of all delicate (ammonia sensitive) organisms from the water containing the ammonia. Some of the possible actions to take are detailed in the following sections listed below."
OP
OP
Thanks Randy. What is the actual process that is happening when ammonia is changed to ammonium?
OP
OP
One more question. Like I said in other thread. Ive been running higher PH in New tank since it settled in around 8.43-8.47.
Ammonia reading .001. Did see it move up to .005 on initial set up but went back down.
Question is with my Higher Ph how accurate is my Ammonia reading at .001?
Randy Holmes-Farley
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The H+ hops on and hops off the NH3, many, many times per second. It's like a blur.
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I do not know how pH impacts the accuracy of a total pH measurement by kit, or by Seneye.
At higher pH there is more NH3 and less NH4+.
NeonRabbit221B
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Here is what I have found in my experimentation with Seneye.
- Using a TAN calculator and dosing then it seems to be fairly correct and rises as ammonia is added or decay happens.
- Its all a guessing game but pH will drive free ammonia up.
- Using a TAN calculator and dosing then it seems to be fairly correct and rises as ammonia is added or decay happens.
- Its all a guessing game but pH will drive free ammonia up.
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OP
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Thank you sir. One quick last question and I know I'm jumping around a little.
I believe I experienced precipitation setting up my new tank. I didnt properly mix my salt and wait overnight and probably added a bunch more than I needed to bringing my salinity up.
Now that I have my PH down to 8.34 can I expect the precipitation to dissolve back into the water at lower PH?
If not im wondering if I can remove the cloudy water by running through a 5micron sock.
Getting nervous not being able to test my parameters with the cloudy water.
I love this thread.
its also awesome that range LRT you're stating for nh3 is completely within the variance all tuned and trimmed seneye tanks show. that's not saying they're proven accurate compared to X
but they sure are consistent in variance, when tuned, on running reefs, to the degree Ive never seen reefers use other testers by the hundreds and generate such tight data reports.
another fun aspect of proofing seneye is we sure do lots of cycles based on the timing seneye imparts to ammonia control dates, and these start dates with animals are well before anyone's red sea or API shows safe ammonia
and things keep living vs dying from being placed into high nh3 settings. there's very neat extraneous confirmation I wish someone would access a hach ammonia meter, run it on a reef tank, then run a calibrated seneye on the same sample and post this last year. its the top chemistry comparison test i'd pay to know.
I want to know the ranges of nh3 we can expect from cycled reef tanks, and if they vary or naturally streamline in a way only dark matter could accomplish heh. I think its the latter
jj I really think its a function of all of us stacking orders more surface area right in the middle of the display than we need, and this shock absorber effect kicks into play and everyone is in the thousandths/tbd one day in the future. now is posit time, measure later.
its also awesome that range LRT you're stating for nh3 is completely within the variance all tuned and trimmed seneye tanks show. that's not saying they're proven accurate compared to X
but they sure are consistent in variance, when tuned, on running reefs, to the degree Ive never seen reefers use other testers by the hundreds and generate such tight data reports.
another fun aspect of proofing seneye is we sure do lots of cycles based on the timing seneye imparts to ammonia control dates, and these start dates with animals are well before anyone's red sea or API shows safe ammonia
and things keep living vs dying from being placed into high nh3 settings. there's very neat extraneous confirmation I wish someone would access a hach ammonia meter, run it on a reef tank, then run a calibrated seneye on the same sample and post this last year. its the top chemistry comparison test i'd pay to know.
I want to know the ranges of nh3 we can expect from cycled reef tanks, and if they vary or naturally streamline in a way only dark matter could accomplish heh. I think its the latter
jj I really think its a function of all of us stacking orders more surface area right in the middle of the display than we need, and this shock absorber effect kicks into play and everyone is in the thousandths/tbd one day in the future. now is posit time, measure later.
OP
OP
Brandon id love to see seneye compared to top dollar equipment shown. Ill be 100% honest. Idk how accurate the machine is. I basicly use it as tool to guage PH and Ammonia right now. Would love something to Guage it to. I did check the par meter to apogee and found about 15 par variance around edges. For me thats perfectly ok to Guage for par.
We think its par meter, pH meter and anything other than its ranging for nh3 might be way off lol.
that doesnt help to reinforce trusting its nh3 readings
this is why some mystery must remain. We're on mars driving rc bots, but we can't know about nh3's true nature measure in anyone's reef tank currently I think.
but we can see its shadow/ figuratively / find other ways to prove ammonia self-manages and locks in despite insult, and measure indirectly at worst I truly think.
I still think a tuned seneye might be gold data for the next few years. the timing for cycles stated by one thousand seneye users is why we arent waiting a month any longer in the new tank's forum, we roll about day ten or quicker
one cannot luck into as many cycles, the nh3 is being controlled I'll bet a crypto dollar we would be losing fish and reporting all kinds of crazy behaviors/losses by them if these seneye dates were way off.
In the new tankers forum EVERYONE's ammonia meter is reading positive. we ignore them by the tens, every day and proceed using someone else's seneye timing not even from their actual tank. its the dark matter linkage man~
(they meet other markers for safe starts such as already being way past day ten, heavily fed, usually double dosed out of fear the first bottle was dead etc...nobody is unlucky enough to randomly have bought two different dead bottle bac strains)
Out of the thousands of online reports Ive never seen one single seneye report stuck ammonia in the tenths ppm nh3 at day ten or any other day, it always trends down with this precise measure.
that doesnt help to reinforce trusting its nh3 readings
this is why some mystery must remain. We're on mars driving rc bots, but we can't know about nh3's true nature measure in anyone's reef tank currently I think.
but we can see its shadow/ figuratively / find other ways to prove ammonia self-manages and locks in despite insult, and measure indirectly at worst I truly think.
I still think a tuned seneye might be gold data for the next few years. the timing for cycles stated by one thousand seneye users is why we arent waiting a month any longer in the new tank's forum, we roll about day ten or quicker
one cannot luck into as many cycles, the nh3 is being controlled I'll bet a crypto dollar we would be losing fish and reporting all kinds of crazy behaviors/losses by them if these seneye dates were way off.
In the new tankers forum EVERYONE's ammonia meter is reading positive. we ignore them by the tens, every day and proceed using someone else's seneye timing not even from their actual tank. its the dark matter linkage man~
(they meet other markers for safe starts such as already being way past day ten, heavily fed, usually double dosed out of fear the first bottle was dead etc...nobody is unlucky enough to randomly have bought two different dead bottle bac strains)
Out of the thousands of online reports Ive never seen one single seneye report stuck ammonia in the tenths ppm nh3 at day ten or any other day, it always trends down with this precise measure.
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OP
OP
Alright since you said it now my brain is heading down that rabbit hole. Do you have data or what have you seen in research as far as accuracy with PH?We think its par meter, pH meter and anything other than its ranging for nh3 might be way off lol.
that doesnt help to reinforce trusting its nh3 readings
this is why some mystery must remain. We're on mars driving rc bots, but we can't know about nh3's true nature measure in anyone's reef tank currently I think.
but we can see its shadow/ figuratively / find other ways to prove ammonia self-manages and locks in despite insult, and measure indirectly at worst I truly think.
I still think a tuned seneye might be gold data for the next few years. the timing for cycles stated by one thousand seneye users is why we arent waiting a month any longer in the new tank's forum, we roll about day ten or quicker
one cannot luck into as many cycles, the nh3 is being controlled I'll bet a crypto dollar we would be losing fish and reporting all kinds of crazy behaviors/losses by them if these seneye dates were way off.
In the new tankers forum EVERYONE's ammonia meter is reading positive. we ignore them by the tens, every day and proceed using someone else's seneye timing not even from their actual tank. its the dark matter linkage man~
(they meet other markers for safe starts such as already being way past day ten, heavily fed, usually double dosed out of fear the first bottle was dead etc...nobody is unlucky enough to randomly have bought two different dead bottle bac strains)
Out of the thousands of online reports Ive never seen one single seneye report stuck ammonia in the tenths ppm nh3 at day ten or any other day, it always trends down with this precise measure.
TBH im not entirely sure what to believe based on cloudiness of new tank and how accurate any tool of measurement would be right now.
I have my OG system set up on opposite wall and dropping the seneye in that water its reading in line like it always has.
I can say the temp has been fluctuating by 1 degree in New tank while my other 2 probes in New tank are rigjt in line with eachother.
Making me think seneye may be a little wonky right now.
I have never seen stated seneye pH line up with another pH test kit, I feel if we search key terms for seneye pH the results show people not believing it
in the post scrolls and logs it seemed a lot of these pH comparisons were calibrated digital meters/not everyone relaying api as factual info for once. several pH reports were from digital probe measures, seneye was reporting very different numbers in seemingly healthy tanks, that's best pattern I can relay. Same for the photometer... it isn't lining up with any other kits very much/posters are not liking the light level metering on seneye sorry to report. I do not own any test kits beyond salinity swingarm caked in salt and a thermometer taped to the end of speaker wire...these are the patterns from the field though.
I too wonder how it can be so far off on the other meaures but be so reliable on its ammonia measure, legit debatable. but what it reports for nh3 astoundingly matches every predicted outcome for cycled tanks even before they're assembled, to the degree I cannot locate a failed initial cycle among hundreds and hundreds we crank out in the new forum. we can base every cycle move we make on what a seneye tank would show, and it always pans out. over and over x unlimited testing, so far. even if we dont have the meter handy its timing seems to transfer to other reefs. its amazing what our surface area can do.
in the post scrolls and logs it seemed a lot of these pH comparisons were calibrated digital meters/not everyone relaying api as factual info for once. several pH reports were from digital probe measures, seneye was reporting very different numbers in seemingly healthy tanks, that's best pattern I can relay. Same for the photometer... it isn't lining up with any other kits very much/posters are not liking the light level metering on seneye sorry to report. I do not own any test kits beyond salinity swingarm caked in salt and a thermometer taped to the end of speaker wire...these are the patterns from the field though.
I too wonder how it can be so far off on the other meaures but be so reliable on its ammonia measure, legit debatable. but what it reports for nh3 astoundingly matches every predicted outcome for cycled tanks even before they're assembled, to the degree I cannot locate a failed initial cycle among hundreds and hundreds we crank out in the new forum. we can base every cycle move we make on what a seneye tank would show, and it always pans out. over and over x unlimited testing, so far. even if we dont have the meter handy its timing seems to transfer to other reefs. its amazing what our surface area can do.
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NeonRabbit221B
2500 Club Member
Very inaccurate and even with a trim its high susceptible to drifts after the first 2 week.
For example, Jon M's runs in the thousandths on a cycled full reef tank, and varies like LRT's
and then moved to a restricted QT tank + 1 fish and feed, low surface area, it hovers in the hundredths. he can take the same setup and place it in a dry start tank without bottle bac +liquid ammonium chloride and register a big nh3 spike and then with dr tims, its back down in an hour or so.
That's mighty tight. And its so consistent you'll find variances to the claim to be low
what if its not .004 but really .009/nobody knows
but cycled reefs don't leave thousandths and go into the hundredths, that's a fantastic pattern to note from seneye logs people post. even with a dead fish, or even if they dose liquid ammonia right into the reef!
nobody knows its not accurate either...after all we can't use red sea to disprove seneye, red sea only converts into the hundredths nh3
its why I'd like to see Hach compared. chemists seem to trust that one
and then moved to a restricted QT tank + 1 fish and feed, low surface area, it hovers in the hundredths. he can take the same setup and place it in a dry start tank without bottle bac +liquid ammonium chloride and register a big nh3 spike and then with dr tims, its back down in an hour or so.
That's mighty tight. And its so consistent you'll find variances to the claim to be low
what if its not .004 but really .009/nobody knows
but cycled reefs don't leave thousandths and go into the hundredths, that's a fantastic pattern to note from seneye logs people post. even with a dead fish, or even if they dose liquid ammonia right into the reef!
nobody knows its not accurate either...after all we can't use red sea to disprove seneye, red sea only converts into the hundredths nh3
its why I'd like to see Hach compared. chemists seem to trust that one
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NeonRabbit221B
2500 Club Member
As an example, mine is reading 8.47 and this is 4 days into a test. Red sea showed no more than 8.3. Salinity is 1.022.
OP
OP
Driving me crazy
New tank set up. Could be bacterial bloom and most likely is. Set up overflows with 5 micron sock either way. Looks like its taken the bigger particulates out that I could see.
One thing thats interesting is ive lowered my PH to 8.17.
Ammonia has gone up to .005
Ammonium showing 13ppb up from 9ppb earlier.
Idk what to think.
New tank set up. Could be bacterial bloom and most likely is. Set up overflows with 5 micron sock either way. Looks like its taken the bigger particulates out that I could see.
One thing thats interesting is ive lowered my PH to 8.17.
Ammonia has gone up to .005
Ammonium showing 13ppb up from 9ppb earlier.
Idk what to think.
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