What is the best way to increase Phosphate and Nitrate?

[rcpalmer1]

It has seemed that in the past I always needed better filtration. Anytime there was a problem the answer always seemed that I had to much Phosphate or Nitrate. In May I setup a new tank. I setup the filter what I thought was the best way to naturally filter my water.I feed more than the fish can eat. I watch the food sink to the bottom. My test keep coming up o.o Phosphate and Nitrate. I have had Worldwide Corals check my water and they got the same. I also had Top Shelf Aquatics test it. They got out their Phosphorous tester. It came out 2 ppb. I have been told I should increase my feeding. I have also been told to put my skimmer on a timer and only run it half the time. My water has never gotten crystal clear. It has a haze to it and I get a film on the glass hours after cleaning it.

How is it that my water looks dirty yet I am being told to add more to it?

If I need more nutrients how to get them without letting food rot?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You can feed more, or you can dose nitrate and/or phosphate. Both work fine. Dosing gives you independent control over them that feeding does not.

I'm not a fan of shutting off a skimmer because I don't think nitrate and phosphate control is the primary reason to run a skimmer in the first place (removing organics and aeration are better reasons).

What filter methods besides a skimmer do you use?

 

[Alfrareef]

Following hopping to discover how to better control (lower) mine...

 

[rcpalmer1]

You can feed more, or you can dose nitrate and/or phosphate. Both work fine. Dosing gives you independent control over them that feeding does not.

I'm not a fan of shutting off a skimmer because I don't think nitrate and phosphate control is the primary reason to run a skimmer in the first place (removing organics and aeration are better reasons).

What filter methods besides a skimmer do you use?

It is a pretty simple setup. It is a 120gal tank, 30 gal sump. Overflow goes into two filter socks. They fill up every 2-3 days. First chamber Axium 160 Skimmer. Next chamber 4 litters Seachem Matrix and baseball size piece of cheato with a 38 PAR LED. Last chamber 3170gph return pump running about 75%. Two 1050 gph powerheads running synxed.LFS recommend running carbon. I just got a reactor and BRS ROX 0.8 carbon but have not connected it yet. Wife normally feeds pellets during the day and I give a cube of frozen every evening.
Question, if Phosphate converts to Nitrate then if I dose Phosphate would that also bring up the Nitrates?

 

[Ty Hamatake]

Before you start adding stuff you might want to consider removing the Matrix and chaeto...

Matrix seems to provide an anaerobic area for denitrifying bacteria and the chaeto is utilizing it.

Oh, also, nitrite converts to nitrate. I believe it's more common to notice a drop in one when the other rises.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree. Too much matrix and reducing the chaeto or its lighting will help.

If dosing phosphate has any effect on nitrate, it will be to reduce it by spurring growth of organisms that take up the nitrate that were previously phosphate-limited in their growth.

 

[rcpalmer1]

Never would of thought I could filter too good. I will cut of the light on the chaeto and pull out some Matrix and see what happens.

 

[n4s]

Brightwell Neophos to increase phosphate and Stump remover for nitrates (may increase potassium as well) worked well for me when overfeeding didn't bring up the nutrients.

 

[Grey Guy]

You could always try not removing your filter socks or not using them at all. But of course why do all the things your doing to eliminate Na3 and PO4 and then expect the nitrate to rise.

How the hobby has changed.

 

[Grey Guy]

O.K., I admit I wish I had your problem. Can't get my nitrates below 25. I am going to save a copy of this post and maybe try more of the things you have been doing. I'm an expert at making nitrate. Do you have nitrate in your tap water? The RO stage takes the nitrate out of the water. If you want nitrate and have it in your tap water, I wonder if it would be safe to bypass the RO stage.

 

[rcpalmer1]

You could always try not removing your filter socks or not using them at all. But of course why do all the things your doing to eliminate Na3 and PO4 and then expect the nitrate to rise.

How the hobby has changed.

I have had more types of algae than I know names for. With this tank I wanted to do it right. I watched BRS videos and tried the most effective way. I never thought levels could be to low. My water is still not clear. The reason I had taken my water in was to try and figure out why the water is cloudy. This might explain why my rainbow track and ultra lobo from WWC died.

 

[rcpalmer1]

Just got home from work. I have unpluged the light over the chart. If I have time before work in the morning I will pull out some of the matrix and test the water again. I have another shipment of corals coming in next week. It would be nice to have this figured out before they come in.

 

[DarkSky]

Just got home from work. I have unpluged the light over the chart. If I have time before work in the morning I will pull out some of the matrix and test the water again. I have another shipment of corals coming in next week. It would be nice to have this figured out before they come in.

I wouldn't remove the light 100%, just reduce the photoperiod. Too many drastic changes can have the opposite effect.

Take a serious look at dosing stump remover (NO3) and a powdered phosphate suppliment (PO4). They'll let you get to the exact levels you want to have. I have mine on dosers so I stay right around 10ppm NO3 and 0.03ppm PO4.

Here are the products I used:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GVYXKC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008BRBVZW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

O.K., I admit I wish I had your problem. Can't get my nitrates below 25. I am going to save a copy of this post and maybe try more of the things you have been doing. I'm an expert at making nitrate. Do you have nitrate in your tap water? The RO stage takes the nitrate out of the water. If you want nitrate and have it in your tap water, I wonder if it would be safe to bypass the RO stage.

No. The DI will remove nitrate, and bypassign the RO will cause the DI to deplete 10-50 or more times faster.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have had more types of algae than I know names for. With this tank I wanted to do it right. I watched BRS videos and tried the most effective way. I never thought levels could be to low. My water is still not clear. The reason I had taken my water in was to try and figure out why the water is cloudy. This might explain why my rainbow track and ultra lobo from WWC died.

Water can be cloudy from phytoplankton (greenish and photosynthetic), nonphotosynthetic bacteria (white), detritus stirred up (brownish) or abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate (white).

 

[Grey Guy]

No. The DI will remove nitrate, and bypassign the RO will cause the DI to deplete 10-50 or more times faster.

I always thought nitrate was the reason we use RO. It's weird when one can be wrong about something for such a long time. O.K. I have a sediment filter, a carbon filter, an RO membrane and a DI cartridge. Just to make sure I understand, could you explain the function of each in order.

Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have a sediment filter, a carbon filter, an RO membrane and a DI cartridge. Just to make sure I understand, could you explain the function of each in order.

Thanks

Sure, this article does exactly that:

Reverse Osmosis/Deionization Systems to Purify Tap Water for Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.htm

 

[Grey Guy]

Thanks. Good read

 

[rsljr81]

Are any of your tank inhabitants looking stressed. Corals and fish have good color and growth? Imo they are thr best indicators of how the tank is doin. If all your trying to achieve is clear water most of the time this can be achieved by using coral. As long as inhabitants look good most if the time all is good.

 

[rsljr81]

I meant using carbon.