What is the best way to supplement calcium and alkalinity?

[Doctorgori]

Probably not this way…
A big experiment….I’m doing a “ build” as we speak,
Ive kept the receipts as part of the build threads documentation… Ill definitely watch this thread as reference

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Oh I forgot Sea-Lab #28!

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I'm not sure this would fall under the premise of the article, but it seems that one of the limiting factors with kalkwasser is you can only dose up to your daily evaporation.

One thing that I've been doing for close to a year now is using a concentrated brine solution that doses along side kalkwasser to achieve 35ppt and then use another peristaltic pump to remove the sum of both kalkwasser and concentrated salt.

I would consider put a high difficulty level on this approach because it relies heavily on pump calibration and software to handle the heavy lifting but definitely doable with the right approach.

The benefit is that this acts as an auto water change as well.

To my knowledge there are a handful of people doing this.

 

[BeanAnimal]

FWIW - not related but I use a similar approach to replace skimmer and automated testing NSW so that the ATO can simply do its thing. Over a year and I have not had to adjust salinity.

 

[rishma]

Are these issues or concerns or things to be considered before selecting?



You noted cost for the materials. Does that include monthly or bi-monthly ICP tests if running some additive based methodologies such as Moonshine (not picking on it)? There is product coast just not sure how that may or may not fit in or if it matters.

You probably cover this in problem scenarios since you mentioned complexity and overdose but what about monitors, alerts, and how one manages travel, vacation, or time away?

I cannot imagine using Icp for calcium and alkalinity.

 

[RelaxingWithTheReef]

You mention trace elements. But specifically I think there is still confusion regarding the need for additional trace elements as a supplement verses trace elements that are added to calcium and alkalinity products to maintain NSW ionic balance, and (may still come as a surprise to some people) provide no supplementation.

Example topics may include products like B-Ionic and Balling-C for ionic balance, the temptation of extra Balling-C for supplementation, kalkwasser having no trace elements, calcium reactor possibly providing some ionic balance and supplementation of ???.

Proper management of trace elements with these different Ca / Alk methods then becomes quite an interesting topic.




@Doctorgori - I see you have what may be a nice new DOS QuietDrive. Not sure if you are aware, but units purchased even today have a firmware bug where the unit will severely overdose if you enter a dose of I believe 4mL and under. The pump will just keep running, and running , and running.... Make sure you update to the latest Apex software, and then you have to wait up to 24 hours after you update for the DOS to show that it requires a firmware update! Latest DOS QuietDrive software is version 11. Here are the details:

AOS Release AOS 5.12_8H24 has been released - August 20 2024

This AOS includes: Support for detecting and displaying a NO POWER message in Apex Fusion and Apex Local, which indicates that a DOS or DQD which is connected with Aquabus and 24 volt power supply has no 24 volt input power. Updated DOS QuietDrive firmware (version 11), which contain minor...

forum.neptunesystems.com

 

[Miami Reef]

If you use kalkwasser in an ATO, it can prematurely ruin the pump from the high pH.

Using sodium hydroxide is difficult because you need to be aware that certain plastics are susceptible to degradation from it. Many dosing pumps use tubing lines that will melt from hydroxide. The jug material also needs to be taken into account.

 

[Doctorgori]

If you use kalkwasser in an ATO, it can prematurely ruin the pump from the high pH.

Using sodium hydroxide is difficult because you need to be aware that certain plastics are susceptible to degradation from it. Many dosing pumps use tubing lines that will melt from hydroxide. The jug material also needs to be taken into account.

Just re post for emphasis
+1

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not sure this would fall under the premise of the article, but it seems that one of the limiting factors with kalkwasser is you can only dose up to your daily evaporation.

One thing that I've been doing for close to a year now is using a concentrated brine solution that doses along side kalkwasser to achieve 35ppt and then use another peristaltic pump to remove the sum of both kalkwasser and concentrated salt.

I would consider put a high difficulty level on this approach because it relies heavily on pump calibration and software to handle the heavy lifting but definitely doable with the right approach.

The benefit is that this acts as an auto water change as well.

To my knowledge there are a handful of people doing this.

Seems complicated. Have you evaluated the cost compared to other methods?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Oh I forgot Sea-Lab #28!

lol

 

[Koty]

Supplementing calcium and alkalinity to a no-water-change tank is a particular case to discuss:
I use the TM Balling system, but it is not ideal as the total salinity and calcium levels creep up. The best strategy for long-term minimal maintenance is probably to use the TM Carbocalcium (or any similar product) and separately dose Mg. On top of this, the dosing of trace/essential elements mix(es), carbon, and ammonia/amino acids (such as coral food or if nitrates are low) can be added. Total of 5 to 6 dosing pumps, and you are free to keep testing until your system reaches some form of a balance (which never happens as corals grow...)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You mention trace elements. But specifically I think there is still confusion regarding the need for additional trace elements as a supplement verses trace elements that are added to calcium and alkalinity products to maintain NSW ionic balance, and (may still come as a surprise to some people) provide no supplementation.

Example topics may include products like B-Ionic and Balling-C for ionic balance, the temptation of extra Balling-C for supplementation, kalkwasser having no trace elements, calcium reactor possibly providing some ionic balance and supplementation of ???.

Proper management of trace elements with these different Ca / Alk methods then becomes quite an interesting topic.

Yes, I will touch on that briefly, but I did address it in detail in this recent article:

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters By Randy Holmes-Farley This article is intended to help aquarists understand some of the important differences between the great variety of two and three part alkalinity and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[rishma]

If you use kalkwasser in an ATO, it can prematurely ruin the pump from the high pH.

not disputing this as I get your general point, but I used an eheim on a float switch for years and years in kalk and it just kept working. I suspended slightly above the bottom of the container. I also used a liter meter as my ATO/kalk pump for 15 years without trouble. The electronics finally died but the pump was good. I changed the tubing every few years.

I know some pumps probably don’t do well, but others seem to tolerate it.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Seems complicated. Have you evaluated the cost compared to other methods?

Unfortunately, I turn a blind eye to reefing costs.

A ballpark estimate would be the equivalent to dosing kalkwasser and conducting 10% weekly water changes.

One might be using a little more kalk based solely on being able to dose past evaporation.

I know this isn't the answer you're expecting, but the best I can give.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Unfortunately, I turn a blind eye to reefing costs.

A ballpark estimate would be the equivalent to dosing kalkwasser and conducting 10% weekly water changes.

One might be using a little more kalk based solely on being able to dose past evaporation.

I know this isn't the answer you're expecting, but the best I can give.

Makes sense, thx.

 

[SPSReeferMI]

I’d like to hear about your thoughts on combining two methods. I like the idea of running two supplementation methods so that if something happens while I’m away, I have options.

 

[rishma]

I’d like to hear about your thoughts on combining two methods. I like the idea of running two supplementation methods so that if something happens while I’m away, I have options.

That’s a good one, and I run two systems in parallel. What do you think should be explored? I simply split my alkalinity/calcuim needs between the two methods, but maybe it’s not that simple?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Still working on this article, but here's a teaser of the summary table (which may get changed):

 

[JTP424]

Looking good! I would definitely suggest providing a thorough all inclusive article, but also a "Poke-a-Yoke" summary version. (I haven't read a lot of your articles so maybe you already provide this!)
Basically something that summarizes the information to see if it's something that would benefit me (or others) to read deeper, or if the cliff notes would suffice etc.

 

[Troylee]

I'm not sure this would fall under the premise of the article, but it seems that one of the limiting factors with kalkwasser is you can only dose up to your daily evaporation.

One thing that I've been doing for close to a year now is using a concentrated brine solution that doses along side kalkwasser to achieve 35ppt and then use another peristaltic pump to remove the sum of both kalkwasser and concentrated salt.

I would consider put a high difficulty level on this approach because it relies heavily on pump calibration and software to handle the heavy lifting but definitely doable with the right approach.

The benefit is that this acts as an auto water change as well.

To my knowledge there are a handful of people doing this.

My simple plan to combat this was adding fans for more evaporation… it doesn’t help with salinity and I haven’t went as far as you to play with a water change built in as I don’t have the controllers or means to do that.. for now what I’m using works and I just manually do a water change now that weather permits it! lol