What is the deal with coral air poisoning

[scott11106]

I just saw the article in the news and saw it on fox news that a family and their dogs were poisoned by coral from their fish tank. Has anyone had this problem and if so to what degree?
they seem to think it was from zoanthids...


The CDC stated:
According to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), palytoxin is "a potentially life-threatening toxin that can act via dermal, inhalation, and oral routes of exposure."

Talking about palytoxin, Matthews said: "I knew about palytoxin, which can kill you if ingested, and that coral can cause things like rashes if you don't handle it carefully but I had no idea taking the pulsing xenia (coral) out of the water could make the toxin airborne."

Palytoxin causes a range of effects in animals and humans, depending on the process in which they have been exposed. Most aquarium-related exposures among people occur via inhalation or skin exposures through cuts on the hands and fingers. Symptoms of palytoxin exposure includes fever, conjunctivitis, and respiratory problems in people exposed to marine aerosols during proliferations of palytoxin and palytoxin-like compound–producing marine algae, according to CDC.


what is the consensus on this?

 

[ZachR32]

If you're working with palys, always use personal protective equipment. Safest to use gloves and a respirator.

 

[Labridaedicted]

Most organic compounds have done degree of volatility meaning they will aerosol. The amount will depend on the compound, quantity of organism/toxin, and ventilation.

Generally, the length of time we have stuff out of the tank, isn't enough time for enough toxin to aerosol, but if left out or irritated (via aggravating the coal by scrubbing, heating, or pressure) it could release enough toxin to be hazardous.

In most cases, gloves, goggles/safety glasses, and adequate ventilation are enough protection for hobbyist tasks, but if your removing, fragging, or cleaning rocks with coral, a chemical respirator would be beneficial and could prevent injury.

 

[slayerhellfire]

From what I hear, again havnt read the article yet but he was doing somthing that caused a reaction of some sort

 

[mckinney0171]

just use common sense if you are tearing down an aquarium, ripping rock apart, damaging corals, etc. Wear mask, wear gloves, wear long sleeve clothes and then take them off as soon as you are finished and launder them or just throw them away. Don't have kids in the house when you do it. Palytoxin is nothing to joke about and I am glad articles like these come out periodically to keep us all thinking about it and discussing.

 

[scott11106]

i agree, i never knew this and i like the look of the polyps but just did not know that they can kill me or my tank. now that i know i feel better about it and really wonder if the LFS or online stores even know or are responsible enough to not sell the ones with higher poison levels?

also i still would like to hear if anyone has had any issues

 

[6TankReefer9]

i agree, i never knew this and i like the look of the polyps but just did not know that they can kill me or my tank. now that i know i feel better about it and really wonder if the LFS or online stores even know or are responsible enough to not sell the ones with higher poison levels?

also i still would like to hear if anyone has had any issues

I read a few scientific studies regarding Palytoxin and the level of toxin across different coral species and have come to the conclusion that I'd rather shy away from zoanthids, as we all tend to know Moors law I wouldn't worry about other coral species as the levels were too low.

 

[cristata.reef]

Most designer zoas contain very little palytoxin. However others that come in as hitchhikers on live rock and such can be problematic. Some leather corals like sarcophyton, lobophytum, and sinularia have allelopathic compounds in their tissues that are designed to inhibit the growth of stony corals and avoid predation from fish. We derive several drugs from these compounds used to combat cancers and other diseases so I would imagine that they to also have some degree of potency, albeit nowhere near as strong as palys

 

[Stanzo13]

So... Should I be removing this junk frag as parameters are fine and they are simply not? I'm pretty sure they would contain palytoxin correct?

 

[6TankReefer9]

I just found the screenshot I took, as I knew I might have to reference it in the future. This was the summation of the full study I read.

 

[6TankReefer9]

So... Should I be removing this junk frag as parameters are fine and they are simply not? I'm pretty sure they would contain palytoxin correct?

Yep, as per the article clipping I attached above, what you have is known as "heliodiscus" Palythoa and are highly toxic.

 

[Stanzo13]

Yep, as per the article clipping I attached above, what you have is known as "heliodiscus" Palythoa and are highly toxic.

I literally hate my lfs they have liked to be about countless things

 

[Mebbid]

If palytoxin were truly as dangerous to us as people make it out to be, then we would see many more exposure issues in this hobby than we do. (Not saying palytoxin isn't dangerous its ld50 is horrifying)

How many times have we truly heard about palytoxin issues? In my 5 years in the hobby I personally have read 1 single article about a guy that has boiled rocks.

Bottom line, dont eat stuff out of your tanks and dont boil anything out of your tank and you will be fine.

 

[6TankReefer9]

I literally hate my lfs they have liked to be about countless things

I think the best way to dispose of it, is to but it in ziplock bag or air tight container. And throw it away in any outside dumpster!

 

[6TankReefer9]

If palytoxin were truly as dangerous to us as people make it out to be, then we would see many more exposure issues in this hobby than we do. (Not saying palytoxin isn't dangerous its ld50 is horrifying)

How many times have we truly heard about palytoxin issues? In my 5 years in the hobby I personally have read 1 single article about a guy that has boiled rocks.

Bottom line, dont eat stuff out of your tanks and dont boil anything out of your tank and you will be fine.

Just because you don't always hear about cases, doesn't mean there aren't multiple exposures. Not each case will get a r2r post or ends up on the news, plus keep in consideration some reefers might get phantom illnesses and have no idea it's because of their Palys. Also, they don't need to be boiled to release toxic. If they are bitten a fish or torn or stressed for any reason, that is more than enough to get the ball rolling.

 

[Stanzo13]

I think the best way to dispose of it, is to but it in ziplock bag or air tight container. And throw it away in any outside dumpster!

I live in a very woodsie area, no one lives close and their are no dumpsters but.... It's gone... Idk what happened... Almost like I threw it out lol

 

[sacremon]

From what I have read, there is speculation that the corals themselves are not producing the toxin but instead it is coming from a bacteria associated with them. That would make it much like the tetrodotoxin in puffers - puffers aquacultured in clean environments don't have the toxin in their livers that made the fish so popular for sushi. Therefore it would make sense that polyps that are aquacultured and do not have the bacteria present won't have palytoxin. I don't think too many places are harvesting zoas from the wild anymore.

 

[nereefpat]

Talking about palytoxin, Matthews said: "I knew about palytoxin, which can kill you if ingested, and that coral can cause things like rashes if you don't handle it carefully but I had no idea taking the pulsing xenia (coral) out of the water could make the toxin airborne."

Huh? Xenia has palytoxin? That's a new one....

 

[JaimeAdams]

Yes the palythoa and zoanthids you buy at your fish store or at a frag swap or online all have palytoxin. There is no "oh this one is less toxic and this one is more" they are all highly toxic. The stores you hear about are usually from people who are ill informed and do something very dumb and boil the coral trying to clean live rock. I make a living sawing through play and zoa rocks very frequently. I rarely even wear gloves let alone a respirator. In my opinion they are no more dangerous than a ton of chemicals and cleaning agents around the average home and don't pose any serious risk if given a level of caution. I won't say that gloves and other stuff isn't smart but I tell people that unless they are eating them rubbing them in their eyes or other mucus membranes they have nothing to be worried about, also don't boil them or repeatedly spray them in your face.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Surprised I’m still on this side of the grass