what makes differences between thriving and surviving? I have NO growth

moz71

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Can someone tell me why my corals do not seem to grow much or not at all? BUT are all alive for over a year!! I have a monti cap, monti digata the has grown millimeters at best and a sylo that has grown at not all but are alive and look well. My parameters have been stable and the only thing I think of is elevated nitrates of 25ish BUT stable and PO4 is .01. I do see that the nitrate here is high but have heard growth even when elevated and stable. the only other thing I can think of is in my ICP test it says i have undetectable minor elements could this be a problem? I havn't dosed because I only have a few frags and I use IOreef crytals which should contain these elements. ANy idea?? ehat are some of the other reasons of no growth. BTW my desara clam is growing Extremely well!
 

Crustaceon

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It’s the nitrate level. I just ran a test @ 25ppm nitrates, saw a massive slow down and pretty much stalling of growth. I started reducing nitrates (while keeping Po4 around .1ppm) and like magic at 5ppm nitrates my monti developed nice growth white on the edges. I’m now holding at 2ppm nitrates and dosing aminos + reef roids. It’ll probably be a week or two before the acros get settled into those numbers and I can report back. The coloration is improving already though, that’s for sure. I think the “master” tanks we see with high nitrates might be due to them not wanting to frag their corals as much. When your tank is packed edge to edge, you kind of want the growth to stop.
 
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moz71

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It’s the nitrate level. I just ran a test @ 25ppm nitrates, saw a massive slow down and pretty much stalling of growth. I started reducing nitrates (while keeping Po4 around .1ppm) and like magic at 5ppm nitrates my monti developed nice growth white on the edges. I’m now holding at 2ppm nitrates and dosing aminos + reef roids. It’ll probably be a week or two before the acros get settled into those numbers and I can report back. The coloration is improving already though, that’s for sure. I think the “master” tanks we see with high nitrates might be due to them not wanting to frag their corals as much. When your tank is packed edge to edge, you kind of want the growth to stop.
thanks what did you do to get your nitrates down? I added a biopellet reactor awhile ago and it did go down somewhat but seems to be back at this 25ppm. It seems my tank just wants to hold this level no matter what I do. I was having flow problems in my reactor (clogging) but got that fixed so I hope to will kick in again
 

Vamsi

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Hi, I would not entirely blame it on the nitrates. My nitrates are running at 80 PPM(ATI ICP test from November) and phosphates at .28 as of yesterday. I am using NoPox and ZeoStart3. I am also doing iodine, manganese, iron, cobalt and chromium daily (Moonshiner program). Attached are the pics, please keep in mind those are iPhone pics, but the colors are accurate. Mostly sticks and the the couple softies at the bottom
 

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Crustaceon

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thanks what did you do to get your nitrates down? I added a biopellet reactor awhile ago and it did go down somewhat but seems to be back at this 25ppm. It seems my tank just wants to hold this level no matter what I do. I was having flow problems in my reactor (clogging) but got that fixed so I hope to will kick in again
Definitely keep your reactor free of clogs. Removing the foam solved my problem with that. Also, when you run a biopellet reactor, always make sure your phosphates aren’t bottomed out. I ran biopellets too and had to dose phosphate daily to keep up with it. I was seen a drop of about .1ppm Po4 daily with cup of pellets in my reactor for a 65g system. I had the tank down to 10ppm within two weeks. I’m currently running chaeto instead of the reactor because it’s a little bit less of a “runaway freight train” compared to biopellets when it comes to nutrient reduction.
 

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I would try to get an idea of the par levels of the places where the corals are at. Try not to go over 300 by too much as 400+ starts to slow growth. Are they in high flow? What all do you dose to the tank?


Also keep in mind that 0.01 is possibly 0 given test kit error range but if you feed them consistently this doesn't mean its necessarily bad.
 

Crustaceon

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I would try to get an idea of the par levels of the places where the corals are at. Try not to go over 300 by too much as 400+ starts to slow growth. Are they in high flow? What all do you dose to the tank?


Also keep in mind that 0.01 is possibly 0 given test kit error range but if you feed them consistently this doesn't mean its necessarily bad.
That’s my approach now. I’m letting the chaeto consume all of the measurable N&P it wants and have been dosing the tank with Seachem Fuel and Reef Roids to compensate. My tank is also heavily stocked so there’s lot’s of poo. Going from a low import/export system to high import/export one. So far so good.
 

blasterman

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High nitrate levels and trace to zero phosphate levels could be the problem. Ive never had tanks do well with the ratio.

Once I got phosphate up over .03 nitrate levels went down.

Only one way to find out. Roids will definitely elevate phosphate.
 

ScottB

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In both my frag and display systems, I see better growth (and more 2-part consumption) when I run higher PO4 and lower NO3. I dose carbon (vinegar) to lower nitrates and trisodium phosphate to raise PO4. I also feed a lot of fat fish.

PO4: .1 - .18
NO3: 5 - 15

What is your lighting like?
 
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moz71

moz71

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thanks all regarding the lower phosphate, I am thinking this may be the problem and comment of this makes sense? I do have cheato in a sump but this is not growing much if any at all. also just read the bio pellet reactor not working maybe due to the lower phosphates as well. In addition, the one time I was dosing phosphate MAY have been the time I did see cheato grow and phosphate lowered. Hmmm does this sound like finding the reason? I will start dosing again and see if it goes up again. I will log everything this time!!! my last lest for phos was on on Hanna ULR Phosphorus checker and was 23ppb which I think is .07 but I did test lower and zero in test past in past weeks
 
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moz71

moz71

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I don' t but I do feed very consistently since I have been working from home since March. Nori and frozen foods (Fish frenzy, mysis rotifers etc). Maybe I should do more pellets assuming they are higher in Phosphates lol
If you don’t already have an auto fish feeder... get one. Your corals and fish will appreciate it.
 

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Could you post what light you have as well as the distance the corals are from the fixture and the mounting height above the water ?
 

stephj03

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What is your fish list and how many times a day are you feeding?
 

stephj03

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What model lights are you running? How many do you have and what program do you run for what duration?
 

stephj03

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I/O reef crystals usually mixed at high alk no?

Does that mean you run elevated alk?

What Alk/Ca/Mg do you run?

How often and what volume are your water changes?

What is your alk before and after a water change?
 

Potatohead

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Your phosphate is too low - Full stop. I wouldn't do anything else at all until I got that to around .08 or so. Nitrate will then naturally come down on its own.
 

Joedubyk

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It's most certainly not your nitrates. You may not be feeding enough. Too low of phos...
 

Fernthereefer

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I agree with the ratio of nitrate to phosphates being really out of whack. But I would also suggest doing an ICP test for:

Lack of trace elements
Presence of toxic metals

Also, making sure you have stability in all parameters.
 

stephj03

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Your phosphate is too low - Full stop. I wouldn't do anything else at all until I got that to around .08 or so. Nitrate will then naturally come down on its own.

I would strongly suspect this if it is accurately reflecting nutrient throughput in your system.

I'd also suspect your clam is using up the nutrients you are supplying before your sps have had a chance to absorb them.

But I would get a sanity check on lighting and other chem parameters before supplementing and I would supplement with more fish and coral feeds vs directly dosing PO4.
 
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