What next?

Volsman85 · Jun 30, 2020

Hoping for some tips on what fish to get next. 36 gal bow front. 22 lbs of LR. I have 2 Clowns (one a hybrid if that matters), 2 firefish gobis or gobi, lol and 2 Cardinals although I came home today and he's either sick or the Clowns beat that ****. I'm gonna try and post a video for answers. I'll proll replace the Cardinal. Any recommendations for next? Thanks in advance
PS Vid was too large

BighohoReef · Jun 30, 2020

Are you asking whether you should replace the cardinal? If so I'd try and figure out what happened to it before adding another fish. What behavior are you seeing from it? Why do you think it's sick? How did you introduce them to the tank?

Reefer5640 · Jun 30, 2020

You could do a blenny. Some of my favorite fish. Some of them like to perch/burrow and some like to swim. The fork tail blenny is A swimmer and one of my favorite fish. Tons of personality. And cheap. You could do a blenny that burrows and one that swims. Or a Jawfish but I’ve found they are more difficult to keep than blennies for sure. But I couldn’t agree more with @BighohoReef about figuring out what happened to your fish before buying another one.

Volsman85 · Jul 8, 2020

BighohoReef said:
Are you asking whether you should replace the cardinal? If so I'd try and figure out what happened to it before adding another fish. What behavior are you seeing from it? Why do you think it's sick? How did you introduce them to the tank?

I was told by the store I use that the Cardinal may have been beat up by one of the Clowns but I'm not so sure. Just had another one die in 3 days. A Butterfly. My water tests are good. They suggested a couple food supplements but I forgot their name. Very frustrating. I introduce new fish by floating the bag for 15 mins then I slit the bag open for 15 mins, then release

NJBillyV · Jul 8, 2020

Clowns are aggressive fish and they're already established in the tank. Good luck adding anything at this point. Ideally the most aggressive fish should be added last.

BighohoReef · Jul 8, 2020

I think you might be running into a few issues with introducing new fish to your tank. Couple of questions:
Are you drip acclimating the fish to your tank?
What is the salinity of the water the fish are coming in? You might be shocking them by just adding to the tank.
Is there any type of treatment you use before adding the fish to the tank?

This is just my opinion and its based off of multiple reads/watches on how folks on here introduce fish to the tank. All of the fish I've introduced to the tank this way have been happy and healthy

1. QT your fish in a separate tank for at least 15 days minimum (This should always, always be something you do, it'll help to reduce pest and other bad things to your tank) I know this isn't always an option but I list it first because its a best practice for long term fish/reef health. Lots of threads and videos on a simple setup.

2. Even if QT is not an option I'd at least do the following for acclimation:

1-2 hrs of drip acclimation in the tank
Allow the current residents to see the fish, you can gauge some type of aggression. It also helps for the fish to prepare for a new resident.
Don't mix the water from the bag to your DT. You don't know what's in the aquarium water you could be introducing copper or worse parasites to your tank.
Use the Safety stop method (see video)

Keep us posted... Hopefully some of these things help

Reefer5640 · Jul 8, 2020

Sorry to hear about the loss. Butterflies are sensitive fish. I know it’s a pain but anyone that does QT can tell you it makes things more enjoyable in the long run and less expensive. It gives the fish a chance to build up strength even if they seem fine there’s a lot of ailments you can’t see at first. You can also make sure they are eating which is much harder for them to do when they don’t have an established territory. I would seriously consider starting a QT. You can get lucky, a lot of people do. I kept reef tanks for about ten years before I started QTing but ever since I started I won’t ever add a single thing to my tank; fish, inverts, coral, rock, algae, anything that goes in my tank gets QT’d. That’s just my preference though. I know a lot of guys that don’t. I just got to a point of getting sick of loosing fish and also wanted to try some of the harder to keep fish and with certain fish you really don’t have a choice if you want to be successful.

But regardless of if you choose to QT or not I would definitely switch up the methods used to acclimate. I always test the salinity of the bag before adding a fish. I don’t necessarily use a specific time limit. I go until the salinity is the same by using drip method (time varies between 30 min to 2hrs). I also add methylene blue and an air stone to the acclimation container. Especially if they were shipped. (Be sure to remove water as the container fills and add fresh SW back to the display otherwise your ATO will top off with fresh RODI and dilute the tank). The methylene blue will give them a good boost, helps get oxygen back into their blood, and has a bunch of other beneficial properties. Then I put the fish in bag and float to temp (don’t add water from bag to DT). This will give you a chance to see how the other fish will react with the new guy.

Do you have pics of the fish that have died? In the tank and after death? Some of the guys on here are really good at determining cause of death.

Reefer5640 · Jul 8, 2020

NJBillyV said:
Clowns are aggressive fish and they're already established in the tank. Good luck adding anything at this point. Ideally the most aggressive fish should be added last.

I wouldn’t consider clowns to be a “last fish added” kind of fish personally. Clowns are some of the first fish I put in. I admit they can get aggressive but I’ve always found them to mostly keep to themselves unless I put my hand near their territory then they get aggressive towards me but not other tank inhabitants. In a super small tank where territory is limited sure but a 36 gal bow front should allow enough room for a variety of territories. Do we know what kind of clowns they are? Maroons can get aggressive towards other inhabitants.

Fishbird · Jul 8, 2020

You honestly might be fully stocked as it is. Six fish is a lot for a 36 gallon tank and if you're having established fish beat up/kill new fish that is also evidence that your tank is at capacity for fish.

I also wouldn't trust your LFS to provide good stocking advice at this point, if they're recommending you buy two bangaii cardinals, two firefish and any kind of butterflyfish for a 36 gallon tank. The cardinals and firefish are well known to not do well in pairs unless they're a mated pair (one will kill off the other) especially in a small tank.

If you do lose a cardinal and/or a firefish (or if you can return one) you could try any appropriately sized bottom dweller (many gobies and some blennies). You want to look up recommended minimum tank sizes somewhere like LiveAquaria. Some gobies need very large tanks even if they're physically small when full grown because they need to hunt for live food in the substrate all day (for example). A bottom dweller will occupy a different niche in the tank so they won't be as much of a threat to fish that live higher up.

Good luck!

fishguy242 · Jul 8, 2020

hi ,agree we need pic's ,you cannot put lfs water near much less into your tank..pic's of clowns ,other pic's if you have them'will help tremendously

Volsman85 · Jul 12, 2020

fishguy242 said:
hi ,agree we need pic's ,you cannot put lfs water near much less into your tank..pic's of clowns ,other pic's if you have them'will help tremendously

Thanks. let's see if I can attach the pics

Volsman85 · Jul 12, 2020

Reefer5640 said:
I wouldn’t consider clowns to be a “last fish added” kind of fish personally. Clowns are some of the first fish I put in. I admit they can get aggressive but I’ve always found them to mostly keep to themselves unless I put my hand near their territory then they get aggressive towards me but not other tank inhabitants. In a super small tank where territory is limited sure but a 36 gal bow front should allow enough room for a variety of territories. Do we know what kind of clowns they are? Maroons can get aggressive towards other inhabitants.

Just got the smaller one.

Volsman85 · Jul 12, 2020

fishguy242 said:
hi ,agree we need pic's ,you cannot put lfs water near much less into your tank..pic's of clowns ,other pic's if you have them'will help tremendously

Trying again. Worked. I was concerned about what appears to be white knots on the side

Volsman85 · Jul 12, 2020

fishguy242 said:
hi ,agree we need pic's ,you cannot put lfs water near much less into your tank..pic's of clowns ,other pic's if you have them'will help tremendously

Here's another

Volsman85 · Jul 12, 2020

Reefer5640 said:
Sorry to hear about the loss. Butterflies are sensitive fish. I know it’s a pain but anyone that does QT can tell you it makes things more enjoyable in the long run and less expensive. It gives the fish a chance to build up strength even if they seem fine there’s a lot of ailments you can’t see at first. You can also make sure they are eating which is much harder for them to do when they don’t have an established territory. I would seriously consider starting a QT. You can get lucky, a lot of people do. I kept reef tanks for about ten years before I started QTing but ever since I started I won’t ever add a single thing to my tank; fish, inverts, coral, rock, algae, anything that goes in my tank gets QT’d. That’s just my preference though. I know a lot of guys that don’t. I just got to a point of getting sick of loosing fish and also wanted to try some of the harder to keep fish and with certain fish you really don’t have a choice if you want to be successful.

But regardless of if you choose to QT or not I would definitely switch up the methods used to acclimate. I always test the salinity of the bag before adding a fish. I don’t necessarily use a specific time limit. I go until the salinity is the same by using drip method (time varies between 30 min to 2hrs). I also add methylene blue and an air stone to the acclimation container. Especially if they were shipped. (Be sure to remove water as the container fills and add fresh SW back to the display otherwise your ATO will top off with fresh RODI and dilute the tank). The methylene blue will give them a good boost, helps get oxygen back into their blood, and has a bunch of other beneficial properties. Then I put the fish in bag and float to temp (don’t add water from bag to DT). This will give you a chance to see how the other fish will react with the new guy.

Do you have pics of the fish that have died? In the tank and after death? Some of the guys on here are really good at determining cause of death.

I am not familiar with the drip method. it makes sense not to add the water from the store to my tank.

fishguy242 · Jul 12, 2020

hi,beautiful fish,would love to help,not disease expert,let's get the dr.s #reefsquad ..best wishes ..following

Reefer5640 · Jul 12, 2020

You’ve got ich man. Not a territory issue

Reefer5640 · Jul 12, 2020

Your black clown looks like he’s got something on his side behind his pectoral fin. Could just be the pic.

saltyhog · Jul 12, 2020

That looks like it could be ich. That fish is a sailfin tang and it gets very large. It is not appropriate for a 36 gallon tank.

You really have two choices. 1. remove all the fish and treat them in a QT tank, then leave your DT fishless for 72 days...or 2. try to manage the infection with good water conditions/feeding.