What PAR should I shoot for in LPS/Softie nano

Wiskey

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Hello all!

I'm building a 10G Office Nano right now, and I'm curious how much light I should be shooting for. In my 75 my LPS open more and have deeper color when they are out of the direct light. I have about 200 PAR at the bottom of this tank, and 400 at 1/3rd down. It was setup for SPS though.

In the Nano which will mainly house LPS with Softies and maybe a Digi at the very top I was thinking about shooting for 50 PAR at the bottom. Does this sound about right to you? Is it too little? Too much? What are your thoughts?

Thank you,
Whiskey
 

Bpb

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100-150 is always what has given me the best tissue thickness and color. Make sure the circulation is adequate but not real heavy
 

Darth.Daddy12

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50-100 at the bottom is more then plenty. Especially o such a small tank where you’ll be getting really good spread. I have a 10g similar to what your talking about and I’m growing sps to leathers pretty well with just 400 at the top and 75ish in bottom corners.

Placement and coral selection in that tank will be much more important.

In my 10g I’m running monties about 2/3 up the rock and Ricardo’s and lentos on the outer edges on the bottom and seeing pretty good growth. I have Zoe’s and such little higher then most would but they are responding good too. They are about 1/3 up the rock and about 2/3 towards the edge. My light has 120* lenses and that doesn’t make a big difference in smaller tanks. I can get a little more par out the edges wo blasting the center areas so hard like a typical 90* would.

End of the day sound like you are on the right track just start corals on edges and move then in then up to figure out what they like. I’m running the dreaded bad fluval 2.0 marine light and my sps and lps are growing pretty fast af just 60% power as well as softies not burning up. I think spread and spectrum is more important then par and flow has a lot to do with how much par you can or can’t run. My toadstools are leaning back almost inverted due to flow but loving the light and I’ve got them 1/2 up the rock dead center.

Lighting and flow is a balance. You can’t have too much or little long as that balance is maintained. More light means more flow.. and vise versa.

My 10g is around 50 par in corners and 75 at egged if rock on bottom. With flow of around 5x filtered and 5x circulations making for 10x flow in the tank. In 2 weeks a small sps will encrust plug base.

I was running higher par but ran into diatom algea issues as well as encrusting corals were growing up more then out.. I want them to grow out.

It’s a fine balance.. you can go high par and grow up with lps or little lower and grow out. Key is pay attention to how the corals grow and increase lighting 5-10% at a time monthly. If you have a coral looking too flat amp up power. If it’s growing verticle to fast and not out decrease light. It takes a good 4-6 weeks to see how a coral is growing and make adjustments. Make adjustments if no more the. 5% per week..

Hope this helps you.... lighting is a dikecate dance based on light used and power as well as its spread.. its the hardest thing to get dialed in which is why for most recommendations are to run at best 60% power with blue spectrum only from the start.

I will say if you can live with this for few months it will save you a ton of headaches long the way..
 
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Wiskey

Wiskey

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Thanks for the replys everyone! It sounds like I was maybe shooting for something a little too low. I'll aim for the 100 ish range.

The only question is how to do that. I have 3 options I'm considering.
1. 70W 14K MH and I would use about 8 3W Blue/purple LED's around it with the driver I have.
2. Build an LED using 14 or so 3W LED's of various colors and a driver I have.
3. Use an AI Prime.

I have a hood for the tank so light look isn't important. Do you have any thoughts?

Whiskey
 

Dana Riddle

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!'m shooting for 150-200 on the sand bed. The chalice in the photo is growing like a weed - it now has 13 eyes.

chalice.jpg
 

Darth.Daddy12

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Thanks for the replys everyone! It sounds like I was maybe shooting for something a little too low. I'll aim for the 100 ish range.

The only question is how to do that. I have 3 options I'm considering.
1. 70W 14K MH and I would use about 8 3W Blue/purple LED's around it with the driver I have.
2. Build an LED using 14 or so 3W LED's of various colors and a driver I have.
3. Use an AI Prime.

I have a hood for the tank so light look isn't important. Do you have any thoughts?

Whiskey
You can’t go wrong with the AI prime. As for hitting 100 at the sand that’s durable but I would be looking to average more like 75 consitsnclty vs blasting say 150 in one area and 25 in another.. it will depend on your height above tank mounting. To hit the higher pars down low you’re doing to have to drop the light which will reduce the range of that par. Honestly 75 across the entire bottom is better then 150 dead center and 25 in corners.. people get to caught up on par.. tidal gardens considers par levels at what I think is reasonable and what I go by and they are in business to grow corals for sale.. so.. I’ve never had a tank where I was blasting over 100 across the entire bottom of the tank. Unless you run multiple lights for spread and reduce power on them this just isn’t going to be a good way to light a tank.. this is what you’ll see 4’ tanks running 2 lights instead of two or 6’ running 6 lights instead of 3. They are not doing that to increase par as much as they are spread at the par levels they want.

I think you’d be well served by a prime HD mounted 12” above the water. As for MH lights they are tried and try tested but you’ll likely need to look at cooking to tank which is more costs. You’ll also never get that deep fluorescent glow you do from 18-20k lighting. This isn’t just cool looking it helps reduce algea growth and other issues.. it doesn’t take but a little red and white to have major algae issues in any tank which is why I run zero reds and o my whites when I’m home and even then only 8% which is enough to make the tank a little more pleasing to view for me wo kissing that cool glow of the 20k. Outside those few hours my tank is strictly 20k blue and violet only.

If your considering running a hybrid setup then cost wise you may as well add radions to the mix.. a single radion with diffuser will allow for the par you think you want at depth and still give you the spread you need.

Here is something to consider long term.. do you want a high maintenance tank or one that takes care of itself? Higher par also means you need more flow and better nutrient inputs which also means you have a higher chance of having algea and diatom issues.

My advice shoot for 75par at the bed on the outer corners.. maybe even as low as 50 is some cases long as you hit say 120-150 at the bed for center 1/3 of tank. Unless you’re trying to grow only acros and grow it in every inch of the tank and maximize its financial potential in resell there just isn’t any reason to go higher. The risk just isn’t worth the rewards here for an extra 1” a year in growth vs tearing a tank down cause of algea.

Many can and do succeed with levels as high as 2-300 at the bottom but the fact this thread is started and questioned means those asking or considering are not yet versed enough to do this. I myself prefer an easy to care for self sustaining system. There are plenty of sps and lps that will grow like weeds in a stable healthy 50-100 par with moderate flow. In fact they will grow 2x faster then a tank blasting 300 par with mediocre flow and high or ul nutrients and state of the are dosing and monitoring.

There is many things much more important then par and most can’t keep these basics at steady constant levels to make going with higher par lighting worth the cost and time wo issues. Show me one successful 150 par at bottom tank and I’ll show you 100 that did it for half the cost, half the issues with only 50.

Take a look at how low the recommendations for low,med and high are from tidal gardens who grow corals for a profession. Most sps fall into medium and high.. most lps fall Into low to high medium.

20 years of fish keeping and 10 or reef keeping and I agree 100% with this for a normal hobby tank.

5785591C-2680-4139-887A-1B80E5276992.png
 

maleks.reef

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You can’t go wrong with the AI prime. As for hitting 100 at the sand that’s durable but I would be looking to average more like 75 consitsnclty vs blasting say 150 in one area and 25 in another.. it will depend on your height above tank mounting. To hit the higher pars down low you’re doing to have to drop the light which will reduce the range of that par. Honestly 75 across the entire bottom is better then 150 dead center and 25 in corners.. people get to caught up on par.. tidal gardens considers par levels at what I think is reasonable and what I go by and they are in business to grow corals for sale.. so.. I’ve never had a tank where I was blasting over 100 across the entire bottom of the tank. Unless you run multiple lights for spread and reduce power on them this just isn’t going to be a good way to light a tank.. this is what you’ll see 4’ tanks running 2 lights instead of two or 6’ running 6 lights instead of 3. They are not doing that to increase par as much as they are spread at the par levels they want.

I think you’d be well served by a prime HD mounted 12” above the water. As for MH lights they are tried and try tested but you’ll likely need to look at cooking to tank which is more costs. You’ll also never get that deep fluorescent glow you do from 18-20k lighting. This isn’t just cool looking it helps reduce algea growth and other issues.. it doesn’t take but a little red and white to have major algae issues in any tank which is why I run zero reds and o my whites when I’m home and even then only 8% which is enough to make the tank a little more pleasing to view for me wo kissing that cool glow of the 20k. Outside those few hours my tank is strictly 20k blue and violet only.

If your considering running a hybrid setup then cost wise you may as well add radions to the mix.. a single radion with diffuser will allow for the par you think you want at depth and still give you the spread you need.

Here is something to consider long term.. do you want a high maintenance tank or one that takes care of itself? Higher par also means you need more flow and better nutrient inputs which also means you have a higher chance of having algea and diatom issues.

My advice shoot for 75par at the bed on the outer corners.. maybe even as low as 50 is some cases long as you hit say 120-150 at the bed for center 1/3 of tank. Unless you’re trying to grow only acros and grow it in every inch of the tank and maximize its financial potential in resell there just isn’t any reason to go higher. The risk just isn’t worth the rewards here for an extra 1” a year in growth vs tearing a tank down cause of algea.

Many can and do succeed with levels as high as 2-300 at the bottom but the fact this thread is started and questioned means those asking or considering are not yet versed enough to do this. I myself prefer an easy to care for self sustaining system. There are plenty of sps and lps that will grow like weeds in a stable healthy 50-100 par with moderate flow. In fact they will grow 2x faster then a tank blasting 300 par with mediocre flow and high or ul nutrients and state of the are dosing and monitoring.

There is many things much more important then par and most can’t keep these basics at steady constant levels to make going with higher par lighting worth the cost and time wo issues. Show me one successful 150 par at bottom tank and I’ll show you 100 that did it for half the cost, half the issues with only 50.

Take a look at how low the recommendations for low,med and high are from tidal gardens who grow corals for a profession. Most sps fall into medium and high.. most lps fall Into low to high medium.

20 years of fish keeping and 10 or reef keeping and I agree 100% with this for a normal hobby tank.

5785591C-2680-4139-887A-1B80E5276992.png
Do you think 1 AI prime 16hd would be enough for my RSM C 130? The dimensions are 510 x 484 x 584 mm (20” x 19” x 23”) and I plan on keeping lps and softies only. thanks.
 

Bpb

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Do you think 1 AI prime 16hd would be enough for my RSM C 130? The dimensions are 510 x 484 x 584 mm (20” x 19” x 23”) and I plan on keeping lps and softies only. thanks.

It may be adequate.....but honestly, if you’re at the point where your tank is young enough that you’re still deciding on which lighting solution to go with, you’ll likely not experience much appreciable difference between makes and models. The volatility of a brand new tank will likely cause way more effort and headaches than choosing between radion or AI or Kessil or whatever your candidates are.

Also....fwiw, my length of experience is about the same as the above poster, but my opinion is the exact opposite. I don’t find algae to be a result of spectrum primarily. I’ve had uncontrollable green hair and cyano under 20k lighting that I couldn’t get a handle on, and I’ve had a spotless sps tank with nearly no nuisance algae to speak of running 10k MH in the 500-1000 par range for 8 hours a day. Algae is more a result of tank maturity, bio diversity, and herbivore population than it is by running your white slider over 10%.
 

maleks.reef

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It may be adequate.....but honestly, if you’re at the point where your tank is young enough that you’re still deciding on which lighting solution to go with, you’ll likely not experience much appreciable difference between makes and models. The volatility of a brand new tank will likely cause way more effort and headaches than choosing between radion or AI or Kessil or whatever your candidates are.

Also....fwiw, my length of experience is about the same as the above poster, but my opinion is the exact opposite. I don’t find algae to be a result of spectrum primarily. I’ve had uncontrollable green hair and cyano under 20k lighting that I couldn’t get a handle on, and I’ve had a spotless sps tank with nearly no nuisance algae to speak of running 10k MH in the 500-1000 par range for 8 hours a day. Algae is more a result of tank maturity, bio diversity, and herbivore population than it is by running your white slider over 10%.
What do you mean by "May be adequate" though? Because I really don't want to buy an AI prime now only for me to go back to the stock T5s that came with the tank a month or two later. Buying a hydra or 2 AI primes is not an option either. So it is either 1 AI prime or the stock T5s. Also, I agree with you, light is one factor amongst many other factors that might contribute to algae growth.
 

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What do you mean by "May be adequate" though? Because I really don't want to buy an AI prime now only for me to go back to the stock T5s that came with the tank a month or two later. Buying a hydra or 2 AI primes is not an option either. So it is either 1 AI prime or the stock T5s. Also, I agree with you, light is one factor amongst many other factors that might contribute to algae growth.

I suppose that was dubious. I think it depends a lot on your mounting height and rock scape and how far you’ve got your corals spread. The ends will obviously be on the extreme low end of intensity. And a frag rack on the side glass will get almost nothing. So one CAN work depending on what you expect from it. Two would work for anything, anywhere in the tank.
 
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What do you mean by "May be adequate" though? Because I really don't want to buy an AI prime now only for me to go back to the stock T5s that came with the tank a month or two later. Buying a hydra or 2 AI primes is not an option either. So it is either 1 AI prime or the stock T5s. Also, I agree with you, light is one factor amongst many other factors that might contribute to algae growth.

How many T5's? Are they the HO versions?

Assuming the stock lighting is good enough I would save the money right now, get the tank settled in, and consider an upgrade at the 12-18 month mark when the bulbs are due for replacement.

I have the AI Prime over my 10G which is about 12" cubed and I have it about 12 inches off the water. In fact it started at about 8 inches up and I moved it outside the hood just to get a little more spread. I was running the light at 70% ish on the blues, and 13% on the whites. This is a nice middle ground where the fans are not on all the time. At those numbers I have almost perfectly even 150 or so par across the bottom. I've recently lowered that a little bit to 120ish across the bottom by moving down to 55-65% on the blues.

This is great for my tank, but if my tank were basically double the size I think I would find the power and spread lacking. I think the next level up light is a better choice for you, you can mount it higher, and it will give more spread and more even light.

Whiskey
 

maleks.reef

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How many T5's? Are they the HO versions?

Assuming the stock lighting is good enough I would save the money right now, get the tank settled in, and consider an upgrade at the 12-18 month mark when the bulbs are due for replacement.

I have the AI Prime over my 10G which is about 12" cubed and I have it about 12 inches off the water. In fact it started at about 8 inches up and I moved it outside the hood just to get a little more spread. I was running the light at 70% ish on the blues, and 13% on the whites. This is a nice middle ground where the fans are not on all the time. At those numbers I have almost perfectly even 150 or so par across the bottom. I've recently lowered that a little bit to 120ish across the bottom by moving down to 55-65% on the blues.

This is great for my tank, but if my tank were basically double the size I think I would find the power and spread lacking. I think the next level up light is a better choice for you, you can mount it higher, and it will give more spread and more even light.

Whiskey
I bought the tank from someone and they have had it for around a year so im not too sure how new the T5s are. There are 4 bulbs, 2 white and 2 blue, which im sure are more than enough but the thing is I like the hoodless look of the tank and the fan of the hood is pretty loud. So removing the hood and mounting some LED lighting system solves both of these things for me. Can you please suggest any other LED light systems that might be more adequate for my tank? Thanks.
 
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Wiskey

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I bought the tank from someone and they have had it for around a year so im not too sure how new the T5s are. There are 4 bulbs, 2 white and 2 blue, which im sure are more than enough but the thing is I like the hoodless look of the tank and the fan of the hood is pretty loud. So removing the hood and mounting some LED lighting system solves both of these things for me. Can you please suggest any other LED light systems that might be more adequate for my tank? Thanks.

I have not done it personally, but if I were looking to light a tank like that I would probably go with the Hydra 32. It's kinda like 2 AI Primes. That would give you slightly more spread, but most importantly you could mount it higher up and use more power to evenly light the tank. Also you won't need to be pushing that light so hard (needing all the sliders up for PAR), which means you can be flexible with color, not run the LED's at 100% all the time, and keep the fan noise down.

The prime would probably work, especially in the center, but I think this choice will give you more flexibility in the long run, and more even light.

Whiskey
 

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