What started the notion that upon completing your first nitrogen cycle you are ready for CORAL?

[ReefLife_Guy]

I would interested to see of all the ppl posting they have not had any issues with adding corals on Day 1 .... PICTURES of these corals along with a description of how long you've had them.

In other words... prove it with pics

Anyone can type words on a keyboard and make statements. I would like to see pics

Added this montipora the same day I added my clowns which was a day or two after my fishless cycle completed with a 0ppm ammonia. This montipora was just fragged by my Lfs because it was being stung by an anemone. If you look close there is also a pink spot where I dropped coralrx solution directly on it and burned it. So not ideal situation for it.

Same picture on left just under blue lights. Picture on right was just a few weeks ago making this frag like 4 months old. Noticeable growth and able to heal from an injury and recover from the stress it was under.

I do not think the success of this coral had anything to do with the cycling of the tank. Also you might think this is not impressive growth but for the first month I had the par too high for it and it started to bleach before I adjusted the lighting. So several stressors since putting it in the tank on “Day 1”.

 

[Baffels]

What started the outright LIE that upon completing your first nitrogen cycle you are ready for CORAL?

My personal opinion is this LIE came out of Freshwater start ups where $3 fish were okay to start adding after a new tank had completed its first nitrogen cycle

Explain to me how that logic transfers over to adding highly highly sensitive coral animals?

As a newcomer to this hobby, this kind of post is really discouraging, fyi. Calling things lies just because people have opposing opinions makes it hard for us new folk to find what information is true or not.

That being said, I have a 1 month old tank with multiple thriving softies... so when I see this kind of talk, I just assume I messed up, which isnt really the case.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Added this montipora the same day I added my clowns which was a day or two after my fishless cycle completed with a 0ppm ammonia. This montipora was just fragged by my Lfs because it was being stung by an anemone. If you look close there is also a pink spot where I dropped coralrx solution directly on it and burned it. So not ideal situation for it.

Same picture on left just under blue lights. Picture on right was just a few weeks ago making this frag like 4 months old. Noticeable growth and able to heal from an injury and recover from the stress it was under.

I do not think the success of this coral had anything to do with the cycling of the tank. Also you might think this is not impressive growth but for the first month I had the par too high for it and it started to bleach before I adjusted the lighting. So several stressors since putting it in the tank on “Day 1”.

It's possible the water was to clean at that point.. I lost a few corals when I added early because phosphates and other nutrients were to low... I started with a Domino damsel in a 150 pond.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Phosphate sequestration and release in carbonate rock is a scientific fact, not a matter of opinion.

However, believe what you wish.

I treated my dry rock (old aquarium rock and white cement) with Lanthinum... It got rid of all the phosphates very quickly...

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

Oofff, tank wet on may 16. Corals added on may 24.....including an acro. All is alive and well.

1st pic is on may 24
2nd Pic is couple of days ago.


Let me know if you need more pics of any corals.

It can be done.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Oofff, tank wet on may 16. Corals added on may 24.....including an acro. All is alive and well.

1st pic is on may 24
2nd Pic is couple of days ago.


Let me know if you need more pics of any corals.

It can be done.

Was this from dry rock?

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

It's possible the water was to clean at that point.

You mean as a possible reason I haven’t seen drastic growth?

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

As a newcomer to this hobby, this kind of post is really discouraging, fyi. Calling things lies just because people have opposing opinions makes it hard for us new folk to find what information is true or not.

That being said, I have a 1 month old tank with multiple thriving softies... so when I see this kind of talk, I just assume I messed up, which isnt really the case.

This is the reason I feel the need to comment, I felt the same way when I first started. It takes a while to sift through good vs. bad advice. Best tip I can provide is to stay away from advice that uses absolutisms like “never do this” or “you MUST always do this” and anyone making bold claims if they provide no evidence or at least an explanation for their reasoning or logic behind their advice.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

You mean as a possible reason I haven’t seen drastic growth?

Yes.. and lightening up of the coral...

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Yes.. and lightening up of the coral...

That is very possible for the growth aspect, I still struggle with keeping nutrients in my system because my CUC and roller mat are very efficient. Possibly contributed to the lightening of the coral too but after raising my lights 1-2 inches and doing the acclimation setting, my coral went from faintly green to a much richer green and the polyps weren’t retracted anymore. Still had 0 nitrates and phosphates at that point. But at any rate unrelated to whether my tank was cycled for 1 day or 1 year

 

[Kathy Floyd]

This is the reason I feel the need to comment, I felt the same way when I first started. It takes a while to sift through good vs. bad advice. Best tip I can provide is to stay away from advice that uses absolutisms like “never do this” or “you MUST always do this” and anyone making bold claims if they provide no evidence or at least an explanation for their reasoning or logic behind their advice.

Thank you both for this! I too felt like I screwed up when I found out after the fact that I shouldn't have. I have 4 corals and a BTA in a two-month-old tank (with live rock) and I panicked every day, testing constantly. When I learned to relax a bit, I started to enjoy my tank and have watched my corals grow.

 

[JNalley]

Phosphate sequestration and release in carbonate rock is a scientific fact, not a matter of opinion.

However, believe what you wish.

Yes, the absorption of phosphate in carbonate rock, and then the subsequent release from that rock is indeed a scientific fact. That does not mean that after 300,000 years, the organic phosphates it absorbed in an ancient reef environment are still there to be released today. If you look at the phosphorous level on the chart, it should be pretty clear that that is incapable of leaching any significant amount of phosphates into the system, even if all of the phosphorous present was inorganic phosphate, it's an insignificant amount...

 

[Lavey29]

Oofff, tank wet on may 16. Corals added on may 24.....including an acro. All is alive and well.

1st pic is on may 24
2nd Pic is couple of days ago.


Let me know if you need more pics of any corals.

It can be done.

Hopefully you can provide good 3 and 6 month updates. Often corals that are struggling take months to show the stress. Wish you success though.

 

[MaxTremors]

Tank "maturity" plays 0 role in coral health. Good stable parameters are not achieved by a mature tank, they are achieved by a mature and dedicated reefer. It doesn't take an expert to put corals in a tank day one and have them survive, it just takes someone who has the fundamentals down...

I completely disagree. I’m not sure that it’s fully understood yet, but there is a quality of mature tanks, beyond stable parameters, that some corals seem to need to thrive. It’s my theory that it’s bacterial (whether it’s diversity, or a balance, or the appearance of certain types of bacteria that take longer to establish themselves, I don’t know), but some corals and anemones seem to need a mature tank to truly thrive. If you put two frags from the same colony of one of these more sensitive species into two different tanks with identical parameters, lighting, flow, etc, the one in the mature tank will do better. For most corals this isn’t required, though all else being equal, all corals will do better in a mature tank, some just seem to require it vs just benefit from it.

To the OP’s question, it is objectively not a lie that you can have corals thrive from day one. There are plenty of soft corals and hardy LPS that will do just fine in a freshly cycled tank or even on day one (and as mentioned, there are some species that won’t). You can’t put all corals in the same category in terms of what they need to thrive.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Hopefully you can provide good 3 and 6 month updates. Often corals that are struggling take months to show the stress. Wish you success though.

I think you are conflating 2 different things and maybe the OP meant different then what he originally posted but if someone has a coral die 6 months after adding it to the tank, I think it’s totally unrelated to whether they cycled their tank 1 day before or 2 years before adding that coral. I think you are getting at water stability and other benefits that come along with experience and tank maturity. You have already mentioned that you agree experienced (or knowledgeable) reefers can add corals day 1 and not have issues, probably because they know the needs of the corals they are adding and how to troubleshoot issues. Again not dependent on how long your tank has been cycled.

 

[JNalley]

I completely disagree. I’m not sure that it’s fully understood yet, but there is a quality of mature tanks, beyond stable parameters, that some corals seem to need to thrive. It’s my theory that it’s bacterial (whether it’s diversity, or a balance, or the appearance of certain types of bacterial that take longer to establish themselves, I don’t know), but some corals and anemones seem to need a mature tank to truly thrive. If you put two frags from the same colony of one of these more sensitive species into two different tanks with identical parameters, lighting, flow, etc, the one in the mature tank will do better. For most corals this isn’t required, though all else being equal, all corals will do better in a mature tank, some just seem to require it vs just benefit from it.

To the OP’s question, it is objectively not a lie that you can have corals thrive from day one. There are plenty of soft corals and hardy LPS that will do just fine in a freshly cycled tank or even on day one (and as mentioned, there are some species that won’t). You can’t put all corals in the same category in terms of what they need to thrive.

There is a difference between an absolute statement and a generalization that is lost on folks. Perhaps I should have been more specific with that particular wording to something like "Tank "maturity" plays 0 role in the over all health of most corals" As I stated in my first post/reply I wouldn't recommend someone put in a $150 Acro frag on day 1, but hardy LPS and Soft corals should be fine.

The problem with using "Tank Maturity" as a matter of nomenclature is that it cannot be quantified. An old tank is not necessarily a mature tank, although it can be, and a new tank, does not necessarily lack maturity, though most of the time it does. You can't teach someone what a "mature" tank is, because the invisible factors cannot be tested for and separated. You say it yourself, it's a theory that it's bacterial in nature, but we cannot quantify that with any data.

What we CAN quantify is that my micromussa lord (among several others) was able to be placed in the tank 3 days into the cycle, and is still around today, happy and healthy, and that there are plenty of other corals that are in the same boat. And, the added benefit with adding different corals, early on, from different locations and LFS, is that they all come with the bacterial colonies of proven, established systems...

 

[Jedi1199]

My question is why WHY do we feel it is necessary to claim absolutes in a hobby as diverse as ours? Why claim "It is a lie that you can add corals as soon as cycle is complete"? Do you have evidence to back that statement? Do you have personal experience that you can relay that suggests that adding corals at that point is harmful or dangerous?

Other posts that have me asking questions.. The vendors at coral shows... Do they use newly made saltwater, made on site or within a day or so of the show to fill the tanks? I recall a statement that they use fresh made water from a local source. If they have to transport water from a source to the show, why wouldn't they simply transport their own tank water? If they DID use their own tank water, that renders that entire argument invalid.

Since I have never personally been to a coral show, or set up a tank at one, I honestly don't know WHAT they do.

We don't need people claiming absolutes in this hobby. What we NEED is people taking risks, doing the unexpected and posting their own findings so that we, as a whole, can gather the information that will further the progress of our shared passion.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

What we NEED is people taking risks, doing the unexpected and posting their own findings so that we, as a whole, can gather the information that will further the progress of our shared passion.

*Reasonable and ethical risks maybe not trying to test whether you can raise a healthy naso tang to maturity in your 5 gallon desk tank lol

 

[Lavey29]

I think you are conflating 2 different things and maybe the OP meant different then what he originally posted but if someone has a coral die 6 months after adding it to the tank, I think it’s totally unrelated to whether they cycled their tank 1 day before or 2 years before adding that coral. I think you are getting at water stability and other benefits that come along with experience and tank maturity. You have already mentioned that you agree experienced (or knowledgeable) reefers can add corals day 1 and not have issues, probably because they know the needs of the corals they are adding and how to troubleshoot issues. Again not dependent on how long your tank has been cycled.

Yes, your point is good but if a novice reefer puts corals in a freshly cycled tank they may not die immediately and may appear ok for several months before showing stress signs and dying. As we both mentioned though, very experienced reefers can have better success rates but the majority of novice reefers will fail at some level. I believe it has to do with tank maturity. My tank at 14 months is significantly more stable and biodiverse then it was at one month. I could toss a frag in and let it float to the bottom by itself and it would survive. No way I could expect that on my tank at 2 weeks when my cycle was complete. I am a novice reefer but have significantly freshwater experience and I study the hobby diligently. My 14 month old tank is thriving but there were ups and downs on my journey so far.

 

[Chrisv.]

I'm just asking for some visual confirmation to these claims. Im not allowed to question things? Seems bullish

This entire thread seems weirdly aggressive to me.