WHAT THE HECK IS HAPPENING?

[Humblefish]

yeh thats it. and i know not to put it into the reef tank. what are the actual solid cures for ich? dont just say copper. what type of medicine? is there stuff thats mixed with copper? can you link me something? whenever i try to search for it all i get is BS stuff

Under "treatment options", I list them all for ich here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-treat-ich.191226/

Is this a reef or FO? Some people have had success going hypo in their DT if it is a FO.

 

[tom39]

You may want to look at something like this. It goes without saying that you do not want to add this to a Reef tank.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

 

[garra671]

Under "treatment options", I list them all for ich here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-treat-ich.191226/

Is this a reef or FO? Some people have had success going hypo in their DT if it is a FO.

its a reef tank. if it was FO i wouldnt of even bothered with a thread lol

 

[garra671]

You may want to look at something like this. It goes without saying that you do not want to add this to a Reef tank.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

Is this what people refer to when they say copper? Just any copper based medication that is for ich?

 

[melypr1985]

Is this what people refer to when they say copper? Just any copper based medication that is for ich?

When people refer to copper they are usually talking about Cuppramine, Coppersafe or Copper power. Those are the big three. The first is Ionic copper and the last two are chelated copper which should be more gentle on the fish. There are other methods in the link Humblefish provided. Like Tank Transfer Method which doesn't require any meds to get rid of ich and hypo of course, though that's difficult to execute properly.

All three of those copper based meds are widely available and a quick google search will net you lots of results.

 

[garra671]

When people refer to copper they are usually talking about Cuppramine, Coppersafe or Copper power. Those are the big three. The first is Ionic copper and the last two are chelated copper which should be more gentle on the fish. There are other methods in the link Humblefish provided. Like Tank Transfer Method which doesn't require any meds to get rid of ich and hypo of course, though that's difficult to execute properly.

All three of those copper based meds are widely available and a quick google search will net you lots of results.

im more of a forward thinker i want the straight medication to help me or my animals. Ive tried the snake oils and the BS stuff they sell on the side and it ends up just being a waste of money. the tang is still fine and feeding but im going to treat him with cupermine anyways. provided i dont do a fallow period (i just dont have a tank large enough to accomidate all of my fish for 6+ weeks) can i just treat the ich outbreaks as they come? is this what most people do?

 

[melypr1985]

im more of a forward thinker i want the straight medication to help me or my animals. Ive tried the snake oils and the BS stuff they sell on the side and it ends up just being a waste of money. the tang is still fine and feeding but im going to treat him with cupermine anyways. provided i dont do a fallow period (i just dont have a tank large enough to accomidate all of my fish for 6+ weeks) can i just treat the ich outbreaks as they come? is this what most people do?

You can treat the tang and put him back in the tank but he will just get reinfected. Most people do one of two things. 1. practice "ich management" which means just dealing with it as it comes up by feeding heavy and adding live food items or vitamins to the food. OR 2. Qt all fish, run fallow and QT all future fish

I dont see much a benefit to treating only one or two fish every time they show signs of ich. It wont help much in the long run. The ich will still be in the tank and they will get it again as soon as they go back into the DT.

 

[Reeftech]

Plus the fish may look ich free but a lot of time it will be attached to their gills reducing their oxygen intake which if they're already stressed out, hiding, and not eating that we'll can kill a fish very quickly. And as someone mentioned, just because you don't see white spots doesn't mean other fish don't have ich. I completely agree with sabella. Vitamins are the best overall supplement to use for soaking food in. Selcon is good, brightwells makes an omega-3 supplement plus there vitamarin-c is great to use. My make/female lyre tail anthias devour everything I put in the tank that's soaked in any of the three things I mentioned. Just thought of something, how many times a day were you feeding them? I know most species benefit from multiple feedings everyday

 

[omykiss001]

I wouldnt treat the tank with it unless you want to kill most everything. But if its fishless and live rock less/ and coraless dose away. Thats the purpose for doing it in a separate container.

Just think, h202 adds oxygen and parasites attack the gills too. H202 is a double whammy killing the parasite and adding needed o2

H2O2 does not add usable oxygen to the water by itself. It generally breaks down to water or reacts with other molecules in the environment. The only time you really get molecular oxygen is when animals that have the catalyase enzyme (the reason it bubbles when you use it on a wound) converts it to water and molecular oxygen (bubbles) if its not bubbling it not producing oxygen and not all of it dissolves into the water when it does bubble. H2O2 works in that oxygen atoms are electron hogs, when you bond 2 of them together into a peroxide they fight over the shared electrons and generally break apart to form oxygen radicals (each one takes 1 of the 2 electrons) which are very reactive because Oxygen wants both electrons and so it will find one to steal from another molecule. This is what antioxidants do, give up an electron to radicals. This is also why it is a good antiseptic. Our physiology is adapted to deal with radicals like this with the enzyme catalyase for example, which most microbes and plants don't have. I use a 25% tank water solution of pharmacy 3% H2O2 and have treated coral frags that are overgrowing with algae, zooanthids, LPS, and SPS seems to handle it pretty good (don't really like softies so no experience there), they are POed and close up for a day or so, but all of mine have opened fine and the algae dies off within a day or 2. so much easier than trying to manually remove it.

I like the idea of using something like H2O2 or O3, but really need to see studies showing efficacy on infected fish, resting stages of tomonts etc. If this was so effective people who use ozone should also see the same results i.e disease free tanks. I would be most interested to hear from anyone who uses ozone if they have ever had an outbreak of velvet or crypto and just throw animals into the display. I would love to see some peer reviewed studies showing susceptibility of the parasite and the fish to such treatment as it could have promise, but I take the example of it worked for this one guy with a grain of salt. If it's not reproducible in a controlled study then it could just be luck that it worked.

You can treat the tang and put him back in the tank but he will just get reinfected. Most people do one of two things. 1. practice "ich management" which means just dealing with it as it comes up by feeding heavy and adding live food items or vitamins to the food. OR 2. Qt all fish, run fallow and QT all future fish

I dont see much a benefit to treating only one or two fish every time they show signs of ich. It wont help much in the long run. The ich will still be in the tank and they will get it again as soon as they go back into the DT.

+1
catching your fish is very stressful to then. If you gonna get rid of the ich catch and treat once go fallow and then QT to give the best chance of avoiding the problem in the future. It took me 3 days to trap out all my fish when ich came knocking. I ended up loosing 2 tangs and a lawnmower blenny to it. My case of ich came in as a tomont on a coral. From now on all items going into my tank will get a through QT/Treatment as I have plans for some expensive fish later and don't want to watch the animal suffer and my money go into the toilet.

End of the day pick a strategy and understand the risks of each. ich management means any stress in the tank and you can get an outbreak and some sensitive species may never work in your tank, or you could bring in tank killers like velvet if you choose not to QT. QT means you might lose a fish in the QT process if it does not tolerate it well, but you only lose the single fish and you are ready to medicate or treat if you see disease and don't have to try to get everyone out of the tank, which also costs you valuable teatment time, or destroy your rock work/corals chasing fish around the tank. QT tanks dont' have to be barren if you choose the watch em' method you could have a nice little tank with live rock and microfauna, just smaller so if you have to treat you can catch them easier.

It's really all about risk management what you are willing to tolerate and accept.

 

[Oceansize]

I carry a wide selection of Anthias in my store as stated in the previous message there is not many items out there that can 100% guarantee kill it beside copper and TTM treatments then you have to worry about the internal parasites that they might have if they have velvet you should look at them very carefully at the store you're getting them from make sure they have carried him for quite some time from one day to the next as anybody that has Anthias that are doing very well expecially the harder to find breeds which I like to carry myself they're typically a very deep water anywhere from around 100 feet on down to 350 feet for one sometimes bringing them to the surface too quickly can hurt their air bladder which you should always make sure that they're swimming properly second you should always ask the LFS how long they have had them for if they have treated them and if they did what did they treat them well spend lots of time looking at that fish or the fish that you're thinking of getting make sure they show you that they are feeding if that fish does not eat for you in their store.? As Fish love to eat and if they have been at the store for quarantine time which all stores should do but don't which all people that purchase Fish should also do that don't and understand the different diseases and different parasites that can actually become part of that fish and what it takes to get rid of them properly there are many theories and many different ways that people say they do it this way they do it that way it works for them it works for me this way I am sorry for the loss of your fish I am glad that you were able to bring your yellow tang back as it sounds like that's the most important one in your aquarium to you but if you did have it now it is living in your system as the previous statements aboveground showed you the life cycle of Ich I guess my biggest point is no the LFS you're buying from make sure you see fish eat before you buy them if they don't eat before you buy them don't buy them and find out if a quarantine there Fish and if they actually Medicaid and when they're quarantining on there are many stores out there that don't want to spend the time and the patience of holding on to Fish for 6 weeks before they're up for sale to make sure that they're clean of parasites or any disease but just because they are clean of parasites in any disease does not mean that by the time you get it home that has been stressed out especially Anthias and there are several other strains out there of fish that stress really easy but that's what I would ask yourself before you go buying anymore I hope my advices help you a little I am NOT trying to be negative towards any LFSS every store owner does things their way I do things my way I know all the customers that have purchased Fish from my store and I do not sell lots of fish I sell mostly high end Fish and hard to keep Fish more expert level keeping but so far today none of my customers have come back and complained of any problems with the fish they have received from my store. Again I am sorry for your problems you're having be careful if you add anything else if you did have it there are lots of natural additives you can add to your aquarium that says its Reef safe to get rid of many diseases but I have not found one yet that actually really works or that does not take a slight toll on your coral good luck happy reefing

By the way one of my favorite is the Borbonius Anthia

All the time you put into this post was wasted because nobody could finish reading it. If you can't do us the courtesy of even basic punctuation like a period at the end of a sentence, at least capitalize the first word of the next sentence so we can at least guess what you're trying to say.

 

[Triggreef]

I'm not going to go search it out, but there is a reason I strongly suggest not trying to just manage ich in your system.

There is a video on here somewhere that shows the ich parasite under a microscope. It shows the damage that it does, and explains that the damage is irreversible and the damage part of the gills will never heal.

So your fish will basically lose portions of it's lungs and slowly suffocate until it eventually can no longer breath and it will die prematurely. That's best case. Worst case is it will just get a bacterial infection and die sooner.

Just go buy a 40 breeder, a bubbler, a heater, and save your fish before it's too late.

 

[GainesvilleReef]

I lost my tank to velvet almost 2 years ago. Since then I have been following this quarantine protocol. I have found it to be very inexpensive and effective. Here is the link.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/quarantining-marine-fish-made-simple

I would treat my fish and let my tank be fallow. The 72 days is not that long. I used the fallow time to rework almost my entire tank.

 

[garra671]

You can treat the tang and put him back in the tank but he will just get reinfected. Most people do one of two things. 1. practice "ich management" which means just dealing with it as it comes up by feeding heavy and adding live food items or vitamins to the food. OR 2. Qt all fish, run fallow and QT all future fish

I dont see much a benefit to treating only one or two fish every time they show signs of ich. It wont help much in the long run. The ich will still be in the tank and they will get it again as soon as they go back into the DT.

i dont see a benefit to it either. but its either that or let them suffer.

I lost my tank to velvet almost 2 years ago. Since then I have been following this quarantine protocol. I have found it to be very inexpensive and effective. Here is the link.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/quarantining-marine-fish-made-simple

I would treat my fish and let my tank be fallow. The 72 days is not that long. I used the fallow time to rework almost my entire tank.

thats honestly what i was thinking about doing, i want to focus more on corals and i want to reshape my liverock system around that. and just recently i was thinking about upgrading my system to the red sea reefer 350. so maybe this will in turn become a blessing in disguise.

 

[garra671]

Under "treatment options", I list them all for ich here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-treat-ich.191226/

Is this a reef or FO? Some people have had success going hypo in their DT if it is a FO.

so ive been thinking for awhile now about upgrading my system to something larger. if i take all of my fish out and treat them they will be fine and ich free but i have a couple questions below.

what about my corals? how can i clear them to be put into a new system?

what about my inverts? will they carry the disease as well?

if i do decide to upgrade to a larger system should i just start it up with the water and sand and everything from the old system and let that new tank stay fallow while im curing the ich from the fish in a QT?

 

[Humblefish]

what about my corals? how can i clear them to be put into a new system?

what about my inverts? will they carry the disease as well?

if i do decide to upgrade to a larger system should i just start it up with the water and sand and everything from the old system and let that new tank stay fallow while im curing the ich from the fish in a QT?

76 days fallow is the best solution for your corals/inverts/rock/sand/water, as that allows enough time to starve the remaining parasites out of your tank without a fish host to feed upon.

 

[grizzlymint]

Cupramine has been mentioned several times.

 

[Triggreef]

If you upgrade to a bigger tank then you'll have to take everything that is not a fish, that you can't clean with bleach and reuse, such as your corals, rock, snails, hermits crabs, shrimp etc, and keep it in water that has no fish of any kind for 76 days for 100 percent chance of starving it out.

The fish can be treated separately and added to your new setup after it cycles.

 

[Triggreef]

Fwiw, for 100 percent chance of not bringing in ich in the future with corals and inverts, you need to keep those in qt with out any fish for 76 days as well. Imo and ime those chances are very low anyway but it could happen. I don't qt inverts however I do take precautions such as removing frags from plugs as ich can't encyst on living coral tissue, only hard surfaces such as plugs or shells or rocks.

 

[robert]

A little H2O2 data pertaining to H2O2 vs hypo as it pertains to ich: (its pretty easy to find with google) -
hmm 100% survival for H2O2 - guess @Cory might have had a point...

I said both hypo and H2O2 can be a little hard on your fish. The study said: "However, both treatments (peroxide and hyposalinity) did cause some damage to fish with epithelial hypertrophy in one of the fish under peroxide treatment and excess gill and skin mucus production in fish under the hyposalinity treatment."

I'm not suggesting H2O2 for treating ich...Its just a little sad that some didn't even bother to look before rejecting the idea out of hand....

As for H2O2 not contributing to dissolved O2 in the tank....ah well I don't think you followed up with that one any better than the first...

 

[omykiss001]

Fwiw, for 100 percent chance of not bringing in ich in the future with corals and inverts, you need to keep those in qt with out any fish for 76 days as well. Imo and ime those chances are very low anyway but it could happen. I don't qt inverts however I do take precautions such as removing frags from plugs as ich can't encyst on living coral tissue, only hard surfaces such as plugs or shells or rocks.

That's how ich came to my tank. Chances are low until it happens to you [emoji13]