What to do if observation tank gets ich?

Miami Reef

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@Jay Hemdal Got some questions for you.

If I buy a fish from LA Divers Den, can I treat them prophetically?

Why? Because I don’t trust divers den. Fish can look clean from observation period but still carry ich.

Live Aquaria only use formaldehyde and sub therapeutic copper and they don’t state how long. Formalin isn’t known to treat ich well as far as I known.

If I only observe fish without treating from Divers Den:

1) I risk bringing asymptomatic fish to my DT (introducing ich)

2) I risk infecting my observation tank with ich. Which means I need to cycle it all over again.
 
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lapin

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For Ich and Velvet I use the TTM method. After 2 weeks, any other issues should pop up (if they are going to pop up).
 

4FordFamily

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For Ich and Velvet I use the TTM method. After 2 weeks, any other issues should pop up (if they are going to pop up).
TTM for velvet is tricky, I believe it's every 24-36 hour transfers due to the faster life-cycle.
 

lapin

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TTM for velvet is tricky, I believe it's every 24-36 hour transfers due to the faster life-cycle.
Yes it means waking up very early some days and stay up late to do transfers in the dark.
Vampire stuff
 

Jay Hemdal

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TTM for velvet is tricky, I believe it's every 24-36 hour transfers due to the faster life-cycle.

There is also some suspicion that Amyloodinium doesn't always need to leave the fish, and can propagate in the gills chambers - therefore TTM wouldn't work at all. This is the same problem TTM has with flukes...

Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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@Jay Hemdal Got some questions for you.

If I buy a fish from LA Divers Den, can I treat them prophetically?

Why? Because I don’t trust divers den. Fish can look clean from observation period but still carry ich.

Live Aquaria only use formaldehyde and sub therapeutic copper and they don’t state how long. Formalin isn’t known to treat ich well as far as I known.

If I only observe fish without treating from Divers Den:

1) I risk bringing asymptomatic fish to my DT (introducing ich)

2) I risk infecting my observation tank with ich. Which means I need to cycle it all over again.

I quarantine ALL incoming fish, even from other public aquariums. Sometimes, the simple stress of transfer can cause a latent disease to break out. Therefore, I would still quarantine fish from DD. I might do an abbreviated quarantine, possibly observational only if the source was very trustworthy.

I've been hearing that many of the fish from LA are drop shipped through one of the bigger LA wholesalers (others are shipped from a breeder in FL). Some of those imported fish may have only been in-country for a few days. There isn't ANY quarantine process that can work that quickly, so any fish from them ought to get a full quarantine.

Jay
 
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There is also some suspicion that Amyloodinium doesn't always need to leave the fish, and can propagate in the gills chambers - therefore TTM wouldn't work at all. This is the same problem TTM has with flukes...

Jay
That doesn’t make sense because copper doesn’t actually kill any ich/velvet that’s inside the fish. The ich has to be a free swimmer, no?
 

Jay Hemdal

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That doesn’t make sense because copper doesn’t actually kill any ich/velvet that’s inside the fish. The ich has to be a free swimmer, no?
Both ich and velvet have a free-swimming stage, but ich seems more hard-wired in its life cycle, so TTM works out pretty well. Velvet seems a bit more vague of an infection, it doesn't follow such a precise timeline...so some swarmers could be in the gill mucus and get carried along during TTM.

Jay
 
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Both ich and velvet have a free-swimming stage, but ich seems more hard-wired in its life cycle, so TTM works out pretty well. Velvet seems a bit more vague of an infection, it doesn't follow such a precise timeline...so some swarmers could be in the gill mucus and get carried along during TTM.

Jay
Makes sense. That’s why TTM for velvet has more frequent and more transfers than ich.

It’s also the reason why 2 hydrogen baths or 1 formalin bath is recommended to use in addition to regular TTM for velvet eradication.

Edit: I know you aren’t a fan of H202 for velvet. I’m aware of a study that claimed 2 baths of H202 lowered velvet to a non-detectable level. While having fish exposed to less medications appeals to me, I’d rather not take my chances.
 
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jaganshi066

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Both ich and velvet have a free-swimming stage, but ich seems more hard-wired in its life cycle, so TTM works out pretty well. Velvet seems a bit more vague of an infection, it doesn't follow such a precise timeline...so some swarmers could be in the gill mucus and get carried along during TTM.

Jay
@Jay Hemdal can velvet hide inside the fish and become active when the fish is stressed? Recently I put my flameback in my other tank with other fish who weren’t quarantined and a month later I see one night that my flameback is running into the powerhead. He keeps swimming towards the powerhead but a week later and he’s still ok. Isn’t running into the powerhead big sign of velvet?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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@Jay Hemdal can velvet hide inside the fish and become active when the fish is stressed? Recently I put my flameback in my other tank with other fish who weren’t quarantined and a month later I see one night that my flameback is running into the powerhead. He keeps swimming towards the powerhead but a week later and he’s still ok. Isn’t running into the powerhead big sign of velvet?
Yes - rapid breathing and swimming into water currents are the two main signs of velvet (you may never see spots on the fish). However, the third sign is rapid death, and I would have expected the fish to have died long before a week's time was up. Is the fish still feeding?

It could just be a stress behavior with the flameback, but gill flukes can also cause this symptom.

Jay
 

jaganshi066

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Yes - rapid breathing and swimming into water currents are the two main signs of velvet (you may never see spots on the fish). However, the third sign is rapid death, and I would have expected the fish to have died long before a week's time was up. Is the fish still feeding?

It could just be a stress behavior with the flameback, but gill flukes can also cause this symptom.

Jay
Yes he still eats but I got worried cause he kept going towards the powerhead. It’s been over a week now so I don’t think it’s velvet but what can it be? I didn’t see any spots but he does turn pale when he does this
 

Jay Hemdal

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Yes he still eats but I got worried cause he kept going towards the powerhead. It’s been over a week now so I don’t think it’s velvet but what can it be? I didn’t see any spots but he does turn pale when he does this
As I said, it could be gill flukes. Also, more and more I see people with poor aeration in their tanks (presumably to avoid salt splashes). You should add some aeration through an air stone. If the symptoms don't diminish, or if you already have an good air stone, then consider a Prazipro treatment for flukes.

Jay
 

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There is also some suspicion that Amyloodinium doesn't always need to leave the fish, and can propagate in the gills chambers - therefore TTM wouldn't work at all. This is the same problem TTM has with flukes...

Jay
Agreed.
 

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