What to expect when you're expecting...ich

pseudorand · Oct 30, 2020

So I screwed up and put ich in my DT.

It's been a week and so far my royal gramma is the only one that got it. She didn't eat for a day and I saw white spots. But two days later she seems fine. What should I expect to happen next?

If I go 45 days with no new outbreaks, should I call it good and buy a lottery ticket?

I have a foxface in QT with copper, but since I now know I have ich in my DT, I'm not sure when I dare put him in.

I'll be treating with Ich Attack. I know it's supposed to be snake oil, but it's cheap enough, so I figured it probably won't hurt.

Reefer5640 · Oct 30, 2020

Dang that sucks I’m sorry to hear that. As long as there’s a fish in your DT now the ich will always be there. Until you remove the host (fish) and let the tank run fallow for 76 days then there’s no getting it out. The royal gramma was the only one that showed physical signs of having it. But the others will have it too. Ich attack is great for giving fish temporary relief but it won’t eradicate the ich from your DT. You’ll need to treat all your fish in QT and let the tank run fallow for 76 days

Jay Hemdal · Oct 30, 2020

Here is my take on this: skip the herbal remedies, they have no science to back up their efficacy in aquariums. I know it feels good to be doing "something", but they have no proven benefit, and some add organics to the water that you just don't want.

Going back to the beginning - are you 100% positive the gramma has ich? Grammas tend to get all sorts of little spots and discolorations, I'd hate to have you try to chase this down only to not actually have an issue.

Can you outline your DT to me - what fish/corals are in there, how long its been set up, size, etc.?

Is the foxface stable in the QT for now?

Jay

pseudorand · Oct 30, 2020

Foxface is great in QT now, eating and everything. Coppersafe is at 1.85 per Hanna.

DT is a 120g. Two large Clarkii clowns. 1 Royal Gramma. 1 three-stripe damsel. 2 Firefish. Two favias. 1 montipora. 1 duncan. Two zoa frags. 3 kenya trees. 1 candy cane. (I'm just starting with corals.) Fuge with cheato. Misc hermits, urchin, 2 peppermint shrimp and other CUC. I'm not particularly attached to anything but the royal Gramma, but they're living things so I'll do what I must to save them.

I saw quite a few white spots on the Gramma about 4 days after putting the foxface in DT. He was in an acclimation box so I was able to remove him. The gramma didn't come out to eat that day. I saw a few white spots the next day and now he seems fine. I thought I saw one white spot on the damsel, but it's gone now and no visible ill effects.

The foxface clearly had lots of white spots in DT. I assume I just didn't see them in QT or when I first put him in because of dim lighting. They were pretty obvious the next day when lights were there on full though.

I might be able to catch the clowns because they swim into the net to eat. The others won't be caught short of destroying the entire tank.

Even if I could move all the fish, I'm pretty sure many would die in QT either due to aggression (Clarkiis are mean) or an ammonia spike from the drastically increased load.

I'm aware moving all fish to QT with copper and a no-fish DT for 78 days is the real solution. But I think I'd need a second fully cycled QT for the clowns and to destroy all my LR to catch everything, so I'm considering other option.

dvgyfresh · Oct 30, 2020

I would say to try ich management , keep your fish very healthy and feed vitamin enriched foods to boost immune system of fish to “beat” ich, note that ich will be ever present waiting for an opportunity. This plus a UV sterilizer would greatly help

Jay Hemdal · Oct 30, 2020

Ah - that clarifies things quite a bit - I didn't realize the foxface had ich also. Ich management and laying fallow isn't quite as clear cut as people tend to say: "laying fallow for 76 days" and "your tank will always have ich" are really dogmatic statements that do have exceptions. Here is what I would do (aside from the obvious better choice of treating all of the fish!): Watch the fish in the DT closely - if the ich simmers down and does NOT come and go (like it often does) then continue to treat the foxface with copper for 30 days. Remove the copper from the QT and observe the foxface for 14 days. At that time, if you've seen NO active trophonts in your DT for a total of 45 days, you can consider next steps. By then, the fish in your DT have become more resistant, and remember, the foxface was challenged with ich, so it is no longer a naive fish either. At that point - you can consider returning the foxface to the DT.

Jay

pseudorand · Nov 7, 2020

All is well so far. Foxface is hidey-hidey, but eating regularly with no signs of ich or anything else.

Everyone in the DT is likewise happy and ich-free.

But what happens if I want to add new fish? Will any new fish likely get ich in my DT? Or if I see no ich in the DT for 3+ months, does that mean the ich probably didn't survive?

Hugh Mann · Nov 7, 2020

I recently got ich in my DT aboard a Hippo, I feel your pain. I've asked this question myself. I got lots of great responses on previous threads. Shared in this one is some good literature on the subject. One fellow was explaining after about a year of zero infection, ich can die out from a system.

Detecting Dormant Ich, Possible? If So, How?

So I currently have a dormant ich infestation in two tanks, my 55 display and a 20 gallon with a couple converted mollies. Mollies I will add, that have never shown any spots. In fact, of all my fish, only my Hippo Tang has, and they've been gone for a little while now. Long enough I will...

www.reef2reef.com

That being said, by the sounds of it, your plan is similar to mine, manage ich until a suitable system is established to house them during fallow. Management can be achieved by your fish getting a natural resistance to the ich, and you aiding them by keeping them stress free, feeding an excellent diet often. Keep water extremely clean. Basically do everything you can to prevent them from stressing. That can weaken them and cause a breakout.

Lots of people will recommend a UV sterilizer. I did some digging into this, and I don't remember the numbers, but it requires a very powerful unit to make a dent in their population.

My lfs recommended dosing H202 to me, ramping up to 1ml/5 gallons. This works for Velvet as laid out by Humblefish, no mention of ich, but I have an algae problem anyways so I tried it. Can't say correlation vs causation, but between that and feeding lots, often, none of my fish have broken out except the Hippo, and it's been clear for a couple weeks now.

As for your question about new fish, they will almost certainly be infected going into the tank. However, that can be dealt with by the same management protocols, though it may take some time before the spots go away entire.

And last but not least, a disclaimer. I'm only drawing from my limited knowledge of personal experience and talking with others. There's far more experienced folk who will probably tell you otherwise, and should probably listen to them over me.

Jay Hemdal · Nov 7, 2020

Hugh Mann said:
I recently got ich in my DT aboard a Hippo, I feel your pain. I've asked this question myself. I got lots of great responses on previous threads. Shared in this one is some good literature on the subject. One fellow was explaining after about a year of zero infection, ich can die out from a system.

Detecting Dormant Ich, Possible? If So, How?

So I currently have a dormant ich infestation in two tanks, my 55 display and a 20 gallon with a couple converted mollies. Mollies I will add, that have never shown any spots. In fact, of all my fish, only my Hippo Tang has, and they've been gone for a little while now. Long enough I will...

www.reef2reef.com

That being said, by the sounds of it, your plan is similar to mine, manage ich until a suitable system is established to house them during fallow. Management can be achieved by your fish getting a natural resistance to the ich, and you aiding them by keeping them stress free, feeding an excellent diet often. Keep water extremely clean. Basically do everything you can to prevent them from stressing. That can weaken them and cause a breakout.

Lots of people will recommend a UV sterilizer. I did some digging into this, and I don't remember the numbers, but it requires a very powerful unit to make a dent in their population.

My lfs recommended dosing H202 to me, ramping up to 1ml/5 gallons. This works for Velvet as laid out by Humblefish, no mention of ich, but I have an algae problem anyways so I tried it. Can't say correlation vs causation, but between that and feeding lots, often, none of my fish have broken out except the Hippo, and it's been clear for a couple weeks now.

As for your question about new fish, they will almost certainly be infected going into the tank. However, that can be dealt with by the same management protocols, though it may take some time before the spots go away entire.

And last but not least, a disclaimer. I'm only drawing from my limited knowledge of personal experience and talking with others. There's far more experienced folk who will probably tell you otherwise, and should probably listen to them over me.

Just an FYI - I've been messing around with H2O2 to see what I can do with it. I don't have any active disease issues right now to try it out on, but I did find a low range peroxide test strip that seems amazingly accurate. In case you are interested, here is the link on Amazon:

Jay