If someone doesn’t have the space or money for a 10g QT tank, this isn’t the hobby for them.
What will it take to change your mind about qt?
- Thread starter TheDragonsReef
- Start date
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That’s the kind of attitude I think makes the SW side of the hobby seem elitist and turns folks off from participating. It’s just not very welcoming or helpful. Just my opinion.
Also you are essentially saying I shouldn’t be here, so it’s personally offensive. I cannot set up a 10g QT and have it running always. I found a way to QT that works for me in my situation.
But the rate of loss to disease from cutting corners is not acceptable any longer, to some. Less about the welcome, more about the responsibility when optionally joining up to partake in the marine fish trade, buy pre quarantined and wing it with dirty fallow thereafter is at least raising the bar one notch vs today's mostly no prep builds.
I’m speaking specifically to those who don’t use QT under the excuse they don’t have the money or space. Nothing more nothing less.
You QT so this doesn’t apply to you. Could be a smaller QT too I just picked 10g.And it is helpful. This hobby is not cheap, and it requires flexibility in space for emergencies, maintenance, etc. So if someone doesn’t know that, hopefully they read that and realize.
HuduVudu
2500 Club Member
I understand your point. The problem is that new hobbyst think that they are going to come in and change everything and be good at it. Not all but enough to make people say this.
This hobby really isn't for a lot a people. This can be said of many things. I thought I could sing. I thought I could be good. I finally got serious about it. What I found was that yes I could sing, yes I could be good at, but no I was not willing to do what was necessary to reach those goals.
I am 100% for people trying things, but so much pain and frustration can be eliminated with some introspection on their part. Unfortunately many people either wait to late for this introspection or never arrive at it. It is those people that are constantly struggling with their aquariums, not because they are not able but because they aren't really willing to pay the price of entrance. There is a saying "Nothing in life is for free, but not everything costs money".
The people that get through this sorting will usually be long term hobbysts and I welcome them. The others I wish them luck and I wish them the gift of failing faster. I know I am grateful for a quick failure it's teaching is unprecedented.
I don't think the statement is directed at you. You are looking for answers. You don't seem to want people to hold your hand. Your chances of success are astronomically greater than the person how goes to a forum to get a quick answer and a fast solution when that is literally impossible.
Never QTd in over 30 years and never cut a corner. The result never lost a fish in that time to any disease. Let's not get into there is only one way and that is QT it simply isn't true.
Telling people you have to QT etc or its not the hobby for you is dictatorial and smacks of my way or no way. One should keep an open mind and see others have success without QTing in fact I would go as far as suggest had I QTd I may have lost fish. Just my opinion but it is based on experience of never having QTd.
I accept people believe in QT and get results but I maintain not only is it not the best way it helps create it's own issues for many if not done correctly having said that it's just like not QTing correctly can cause issues.
Okay, I get what you’re saying. I think for me it hit personally b/c when I was a kid we had FW tanks b/c my dad basically said SW wasn’t for us. I remember as a kid thinking, like, why? Why can’t I try to succeed or fail at this and have some general help at it vs. being steered away like that. A lot of the time ppl just need a little encouragement and help at thinking more creatively. As an adult I believe in trying and failing w/in reason (and asking for help), vs never trying at all.
I cannot sing, or dance — that is one thing I will always admit I 100% do not have the talent for
HuduVudu
2500 Club Member
To further what you said earlier in your post. Sometimes it just takes a little encouragement.
I 100% guarantee that you CAN sing. I could even show you how.
Just know that it won't be an easy process, but I think you get that.
Here is the deal. When I was looking to get information on singing I struggled to find good instructors. The one I finally settled on really had good instruction ... the problem ... his instruction was for a much higher level student. I ended up having to fill in the gaps on my own. I was kind of like what's the point. I think the instructor went through the basics when he was so young he never really had to set up a process, and ultimately his memory washed away the process that he did go through. He glossed over the basics and consequently his students were failing in droves because he didn't get it and personally think he didn't really want to deal with them because a lot were like the new hobbysts here ... in a hurry to get to the end.
That’s not found in the stickies of this forum, that rationale. It’s primarily why I requested from Rev to add a subforum for all natural means, make that the opening post in the new forum~
if we keep diluting recommends here we will lose all methods of study for strict unabated legit quarantine without cutting corners using the highest quality builds, for quarantine setups.
a new subforum is needed Jay, for sure.
when new build posters resume posting challenges in this new forum I think the results would be disastrous enough rtr wouldn’t want to look like they’re endorsing such loss, be petitioning Humblefish to hopefully allow that mode for the masses in his forum too, until a taker is found
you guys really really need a dedicated workspace
what if you secured a web board to be able to run that mode? It would be amazing to watch unfold I’d be the top lurker.
**it could be possible Jay wants/welcomes the opposing methods here in the same forum to be measured against qt and fallow, if that's the case not a prob. separate forum to log separate practices over time seemed ideal
if we keep diluting recommends here we will lose all methods of study for strict unabated legit quarantine without cutting corners using the highest quality builds, for quarantine setups.
a new subforum is needed Jay, for sure.
when new build posters resume posting challenges in this new forum I think the results would be disastrous enough rtr wouldn’t want to look like they’re endorsing such loss, be petitioning Humblefish to hopefully allow that mode for the masses in his forum too, until a taker is found
you guys really really need a dedicated workspace
what if you secured a web board to be able to run that mode? It would be amazing to watch unfold I’d be the top lurker.
**it could be possible Jay wants/welcomes the opposing methods here in the same forum to be measured against qt and fallow, if that's the case not a prob. separate forum to log separate practices over time seemed ideal
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So to recap, Chevy proponents are in a Ford forum trying to convince readers to go chevy lol. We need a Chevy forum for em
I myself am a jeep jk owner awaiting a fifteen hundred dollar repair before I can drive back to the mountains, the Ford v Chevy debate doesn’t matter to me. Not buying another jeep again matters, greatly though. Non quarantiners, any form of half effort or all natural control advocates needs a separate forum for testing— it doesn’t sell well here, in this particular location.
due to lack of better posting locations we are reading about how no quarantine is necessary in the #1 busiest spot that advocates quarantine on the web.
I myself am a jeep jk owner awaiting a fifteen hundred dollar repair before I can drive back to the mountains, the Ford v Chevy debate doesn’t matter to me. Not buying another jeep again matters, greatly though. Non quarantiners, any form of half effort or all natural control advocates needs a separate forum for testing— it doesn’t sell well here, in this particular location.
due to lack of better posting locations we are reading about how no quarantine is necessary in the #1 busiest spot that advocates quarantine on the web.
So move the thread to Fish Discussion? Ppl are allowed to share their perspectives and I don’t think it needs to be taken as advising others to go against the stickies/recommendations here.
HuduVudu
2500 Club Member
Why don't you do that. You can be the king and all of your recommendations will become reality.
Why is it that you keep telling everyone else what do and do nothing of your own. That does seem to be your modus operandi.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
This says to me that all fish must be quarantined and before I set up my tank researching ,I thought exactly this but then ill health kicked in so had 5 years worth of reading/ researching more before actually setting up my tank and I came to the conclusion that in my opinion not every fish needs qt,so I did observational qt on my first 2 clowns then that qt tank never used since ( kept running incase needed) so maybe some think that you don't need to qt all fish and its actually better to not qt,just lately I've read alot on benefits of qt and not qt.
And this is a hobby and many different ways to get to same end point rather than there being only one way and if dont do it then shouldnt even own a tank.
And for me to change my mind on qt and for me to qt everything ( as said in previous post above,qt everything that goes in tank) I would have to have lots very sick fish and deaths or read that most reefers qt and reason why they do is because dieseses/ parasites are killing such high numbers of fish, so one reason would be my own experience of losing fish or other reason would be so many others are losing fishes at such a high rate ( something must of changed in exporters/ importers tanks and a high % of fish come in diesesed and high % chance they will die ( one way is a clever man learns from his own mistakes and other is a wise man learns from other peoples mistakes ) I'm humble enough to do either and change my way of thinking if I knew there be a high % chance my fish will die to diesese/ parasites like I thought was the case 6 years ago when started researching saltwater but know believe that isn't the case.
I'm neither for qt or against qt and I just keep it simple and I'm a new reefer wanting what's best for my reef tank as keep the tank happy then I'm happy ^_^
Edit: r2r wouldn't have as many threads/ posts and maybe not as helpfull as less people are members if any of the polls on who qt's or who doesn't as the ones I've read it's very high % that don't qt so if they don't qt and shouldn't be in the hobby then they wouldn't be a member of r2r so wouldn't be as much free gifts or bargains from sponsors and all that stuff plus I would also guess that the more people we have and more diverse it is then more good knowledge can be had from sites like these,its new reefers job to do their research and decide how they want to go about it imo then after a certain length if time then they have their own hands on experience themselves ( and some new reefers may of had lots of years experience keeping freshwater fish and I know that experience helped me alot and alot of similarities between freshwater and saltwater, yeah alot differences to but I know just being a fishkeeper helped me loads setting up my first saltwater tank.)
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While I highly recommend QT my statement wasn’t ACTUALLY about whether or not to QT.
It was addressing the excuse of cost to QT or space to QT.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
Yeah I get what you saying but I've thought about this myself several months ago and as much as alot say a qt for fish doesn't have to be expensive which is true ,I also believe if going to qt your fish then in my logical head it makes sense to qt everything ( all cuc,shrimp,crabs,snails,corals ) then it's not just the cost of qt tank / equipment for fish,its another tank for corals and all other inverts running for few months without any fish so then lights to keep corals alive,ato be very helpful, another heater and maybe controller,stand etc etc etc,you get my point right ?While I highly recommend QT my statement wasn’t ACTUALLY about whether or not to QT.
It's gone from 1 dt to now 1 dt and 1 qt +equipment for fish qt and also 1 qt tank + all equipment to keep corals and inverts alive for few months and all the running costs .
So maybe someone can afford cost of buying and running 1 dt or maybe 1dt and 1 fish qt set up but lacks the funds to do a " proper qt " which imo is qt everything as already said in this thread ( I think by op) diesese came in from not qt corals, so just because someone can't afford to qt fish or qt everything I personally don't think that they shouldn't be allowed to enjoy this beautiful hobby we call reefing but that's just my opinion and everyone has an opinion just like some have fatter wallets/ purses than others ^_^
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That’s what one might call reductio ad absurdum argument.
Look, it’s a game of numbers. Just because you QT fish doesn’t mean you have to QT everything. The chances of a snail or coral bringing in velvet or ich is probably extremely low when compared to a fish bringing in the same. I usually QT coral with fish (so long as I’m not medicating the fish). Coral do better with fish in the QT anyways.
that sounds like a: I skipped reading the biosecurity article-argument though.
www.reef2reef.com
so there's an effort gradient, what if all the shortcut takers and less effort advocates weren't trying to C- the whole disease forum
a clear, standout A+ example exists up top in the stickies, imagine if that was promoted here above actions not in stickies
Biosecurity
Our aquarium animals are wholly dependent on the care we give them for their continued good health. Proper environmental care is of course paramount; good water quality, excellent diet, proper aquarium size, compatible inhabitants, etc. Obviously, controlling disease is also a major factor...
www.reef2reef.com
so there's an effort gradient, what if all the shortcut takers and less effort advocates weren't trying to C- the whole disease forum
a clear, standout A+ example exists up top in the stickies, imagine if that was promoted here above actions not in stickies
above I mentioned dirty fallow beats nothing lol, just wanted to set that A+ example, I realize we won't be seeing a lot of it as we lower the bar to gain more entrants into some form of practice.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
Good article Jay wrote there .that sounds like a: I skipped reading the biosecurity article-argument though.
Biosecurity
Our aquarium animals are wholly dependent on the care we give them for their continued good health. Proper environmental care is of course paramount; good water quality, excellent diet, proper aquarium size, compatible inhabitants, etc. Obviously, controlling disease is also a major factor...
so there's an effort gradient, what if all the shortcut takers and less effort advocates weren't trying to C- the whole disease forum
a clear, standout A+ example exists up top in the stickies, imagine if that was promoted here above actions not in stickies
And as I said above full qt of everything imo is the best way and the only way I would do qt as if I did it I be " all in " but never even thought if didnt want qt all cuc and corals and want to lessen the chance then bit jay says example of putting snails in fresh saltwater in a bucket for an hour before move to dt,would lessen the chances yes but I would be absolutely gutted if qt all fish and spent lots time,money and effort just for diesese / parasites to get through a " formite" ( learnt a new word and meaning tonight ha ha ) so would do full qt everything of I did but each to their own as we all got choices and I respect that
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