What's going on with my leopard wrasse?

[BigJohnny]

Hey All,

I have 2 blue star leopard wrasses in QT right now. They are both juvenile females (less than 2") and have been in QT for 2 weeks. They both eat nutramar ova 2-3x/day and Hikari mysis soaked in selcon and brightwell garlic occasionally.

The only medication I have added to the tank is the first round of prazipro 5 days ago (prophylactically, I've seen no signs of external or internal parasites).

The tank is aerated by a large sponge filter and a koralia nano at water surface. Temp 77.5, No ammonia, no nitrite, >5ppm nitrate, 25% water changes weekly.

The 2nd wrasse that comes into the frame of the video below has some redness/darkness that appears to be internal (hard to to tell if it's transparent and internal or all the way through) behind her mouth/beak. My first guess is she injured it diving or something (not sure how long it's been there, at least 2 days if not the whole time) but she has had no issues eating and there is sand in the tank which she has slept in on several occasions if not every night.

I'm hoping it's actually a change in coloration because she's already turning male but I think that's probably wishful thinking. Hopefully not a blood clot/aneurysm, or uronema or anything wild like that. This is the best shot I could get. Look at the first wrasse mouth before the 2nd comes out and it will be obvious.

There are no other symptoms that I can see and both fish appear to be healthy. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[Humblefish]

I think it's just a change in coloration, but let's ask the wrasse experts to weigh in.

@evolved @eatbreakfast

 

[BigJohnny]

I think it's just a change in coloration, but let's ask the wrasse experts to weigh in.

@evolved @eatbreakfast

I hope so, but it looks at least partially internal to me which is why I am a little concerned. It's hard to see in the video but that area is pretty transparent on both wrasses.

 

[evolved]

I think it's just a change in coloration, but let's ask the wrasse experts to weigh in.

@evolved @eatbreakfast

I sent him your way because it looks internal to me.

I wasn't about to venture a guess; I don't know how to gauge bruising from an internal infection?

 

[ngoodermuth]

It looks like bruising to me. I think it probably spooked and damaged its mouth diving for cover.

If she's eating that's a good sign. Nutrimar ova is a great food to feed her because it's small and soft. I'd continue to feed small amounts frequently and keep adding the selcon to boost its immune system.

If the redness begins to spread, or she stops eating, starts breathing heavily, etc I'd consider an antibiotic like kanaplex and/or furan-2.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ I'd go with @ngoodermuth's advice.

 

[BigJohnny]

It looks like bruising to me. I think it probably spooked and damaged its mouth diving for cover.

If she's eating that's a good sign. Nutrimar ova is a great food to feed her because it's small and soft. I'd continue to feed small amounts frequently and keep adding the selcon to boost its immune system.

If the redness begins to spread, or she stops eating, starts breathing heavily, etc I'd consider an antibiotic like kanaplex and/or furan-2.

OK sounds like a plan. Thanks!

 

[melypr1985]

She looks to be breathing rather rapidly in the video to me. I still agree with ngoodermuth as well, but I'm thinking you might want to watch her very closely in the next 24 hours and be ready to treat asap if it gets worse.

 

[BigJohnny]

She looks to be breathing rather rapidly in the video to me. I still agree with ngoodermuth as well, but I'm thinking you might want to watch her very closely in the next 24 hours and be ready to treat asap if it gets worse.

Ok, I didn't notice since I'm not familiar with normal rate of breathing for this species. They also get all worked up when I'm about to feed them and freak out a bit when I enter the room (I'm 6'4 with dark hair to my shoulders lol), so I attribute a lot of their behavior to that. Were you able to see if she was breathing faster than the other one?

I will def keep an eye on her. I work from home and feed 3x a day so i will be scoping her out periodically. I'll also upload a vid tomorrow as well if you all wouldn't mind checking back in. I would really appreciate it.

Thanks

 

[melypr1985]

Were you able to see if she was breathing faster than the other one?

I wasn't. The first one wasn't in the video long enough for me to make it out.

I'll also upload a vid tomorrow as well if you all wouldn't mind checking back in. I would really appreciate it.

None of us mind checking back in! I'll be at work most of the day but the others will likely be around to give a fast response for you. I'll check in after work

 

[4FordFamily]

I agree with Ngoodermuth and they look pretty healthy overall, to me.

 

[BigJohnny]

I agree with Ngoodermuth and they look pretty healthy overall, to me.

Thanks for checkin em out for me.[emoji106]

 

[BigJohnny]

There was no change yesterday so I did not upload a video, but I am happy to say that today I could not even distinguish the two wrasses at first because it had improved so significantly! The redness/darkness is still there but has faded substantially. Both wrasses ate nutramar ova, live blackworms, and the beak one ate Hikari mysis soaked in selcon! I did a 25% water change and dosed the second round of prazi last night, so all that's left is too observe for ich and velvet for another 2 weeks or so (on day 16 qt right now).

I forget if it was fordfamily or eatbreakfast who suggested I feed metro+focus as well just incase (not due to the beak issue but in general), what is everyone's thoughts on this? I don't see any stringy white poop or anything. Could there still be internal parasites that show no obvious symptoms that would require metro?

Thanks!

 

[BigJohnny]

Btw, I dosed the 2nd round of prazi exactly 7 days after the first, is that cutting it to close on the life cycle (as in one hour later would have been the beginning of day 8)? I've never used it before and I know it says every 5-7 days.

 

[Humblefish]

I forget if it was fordfamily or eatbreakfast who suggested I feed metro+focus as well just incase (not due to the beak issue but in general), what is everyone's thoughts on this? I don't see any stringy white poop or anything. Could there still be internal parasites that show no obvious symptoms that would require metro?

I wouldn't feed metro+focus unless you are seeing signs (white stringy poop, pinched stomach) of intestinal worms.

Btw, I dosed the 2nd round of prazi exactly 7 days after the first, is that cutting it to close on the life cycle (as in one hour later would have been the beginning of day 8)? I've never used it before and I know it says every 5-7 days.

You should be fine.

 

[BigJohnny]

I wouldn't feed metro+focus unless you are seeing signs (white stringy poop, pinched stomach) of intestinal worms.



You should be fine.

Great, thanks for your input!

 

[BigJohnny]

Hey all,

so the blue star leopard wrasse injury is completely healed. Both wrasses are doing great IMO. They eat live blackworms every day and also I feed nutramar ova and hikari mysis with selcon. They both CRUSH food and are best buds. I just finished round 2 of prazi and am currently on day 23 of QT. My original plan was qt for 4 weeks with 2 rounds of prazi, and observe for anything else. So far I have seen zero symptoms that I can attribute to a disease, HOWEVER, when @melypr1985 said that one of my wrasses looked to be breathing rapidly, I started to get a little concerned. I personally have no idea what a normal rate of breathing for a fast and active juvenile leopard wrasse is. They both appear to be breathing at the same rate which is pretty similar to what is in that video. I have tried to get better video but its too hard. I also am not sure if they are breathing faster because they are in a feeding frenzy/scared of me (they always hide initially when i come in and dart away with sudden movements). I know heavy breathing or gasping for air is a bad thing and I could recognize that, but how I can tell what is "rapid" and whether or not I need to be concerned. My worry is that maybe they have ich in the gills and i just dont know it (but they seem completely fine). Thoughts? I would really appreciate your input. The last thing i want to do is throw these guys in the display and end up having to go fallow when a more susceptible fish shows ich down the road or something. Having said that, I do not want to treat these fish with copper or TTM unless necessary. There are no white spots, scratching on rocks/substrate, or twitching (besides the panic twitch/flash when i move suddenly lol)

Thanks!

 

[Humblefish]

Rapid breathing is not normal for any fish, unless they are exerting themselves. The breathing of a wrasse just cruising around the tank should not be noticeable.

 

[BigJohnny]

Rapid breathing is not normal for any fish, unless they are exerting themselves. The breathing of a wrasse just cruising around the tank should not be noticeable.

The issue I am having is that both fish are 2" or less. When they slow down to eat I can observe their breathing (although somewhat difficult due to the elaborate pattern and basically transparent fins it can be hard to distinguish what is fins and what is breathing). I just don't know what rate is considered "rapid".
Is there a general rate I can go by?

If we can determine that they are both breathing rapidly, should I assume ich if there are no other symptoms? What else could it be? The water is heavily aerated, zero ammonia and nitrites, low nitrates <5ppm. No loss of appetite, no twitching or scratching, etc.

Thanks!

 

[Humblefish]

Can you try uploading another video showing them breathing? This is one of those things where it's difficult to explain what might be considered "normal" or "rapid" breathing. I really need to see it for myself.