What's going on with my leopard wrasse?

[BigJohnny]

Can you try uploading another video showing them breathing? This is one of those things where it's difficult to explain what might be considered "normal" or "rapid" breathing. I really need to see it for myself.

OK I will try. BRB

 

[BigJohnny]

OK @Humblefish , @melypr1985 , @ngoodermuth , @4FordFamily, @evolved

I finally caught some solid video of what I have been seeing and what I think @melypr1985 noticed as well. The good news is that I realized it only happens when they are eating. I normally only interact with them when feeding so I never noticed it much before, but today I filmed 3 videos and noticed I couldn't even tell they were breathing before I threw in some food. I am thinking that the rapid breathing is a combination of chewing/breathing/the food being too large (they have to chew up and spit out the live blackworms a few times). However, I am no expert and will let you all be the judges.

So, the first two videos are kind of long but please watch all the way through because the best angles happen sporadically. These videos were filmed before feeding and I do not notice any form of rapid breathing, or breathing much at all really:





This video was filmed during a feeding of live black worms. You can clearly see the "rapid breathing" in this video:



Please let me know what you guys/gals think. THANKS!

 

[4FordFamily]

Looks pretty normal to me but it's pretty hard to tell, honestly. My iPhone is not very conducive to seeing detail.

 

[BigJohnny]

Looks pretty normal to me but it's pretty hard to tell, honestly. My iPhone is not very conducive to seeing detail.

Thanks for taking a look, I really appreciate it. It is good enough quality to watch on a computer if you get bored

 

[leahfiish]

I agree that it looks normal.

 

[BigJohnny]

I agree that it looks normal.

Thanks for checking!

 

[melypr1985]

I think you are right. They look totally normal and healthy. Beautiful fish

 

[BigJohnny]

I think you are right. They look totally normal and healthy. Beautiful fish

Awesome, so glad to hear it! Thanks for checking em out. They are beautiful! I can't wait to get them in the display.

 

[BigJohnny]

BTW, do you all think observing for ich/velvet/etc for 4 weeks is sufficient with this species? They received 2 rounds of prazi but that is all I have done (hopefully all I will have to do!). I know some people treat prophylactically with TTM or Copper etc, so opinions vary on this matter, but I would love to hear your input.

Thanks!

 

[ngoodermuth]

BTW, do you all think observing for ich/velvet/etc for 4 weeks is sufficient with this species? They received 2 rounds of prazi but that is all I have done (hopefully all I will have to do!). I know some people treat prophylactically with TTM or Copper etc, so opinions vary on this matter, but I would love to hear your input.

Thanks!

My opinion is, that I treat with copper prophylactically- especially with wrasses since they can be "carriers" with little to no symptoms. Alternatively, TTM is a good idea at the least. Even treating with copper I still ended up with ich in my display (likely human error/cross-contamination) so take that as it is, but I still wouldn't risk it.

Just my opinion though

 

[BigJohnny]

My opinion is, that I treat with copper prophylactically- especially with wrasses since they can be "carriers" with little to no symptoms. Alternatively, TTM is a good idea at the least. Even treating with copper I still ended up with ich in my display (likely human error/cross-contamination) so take that as it is, but I still wouldn't risk it.

Just my opinion though

Interesting. Thanks for your input. I really don't want to treat prophylactically but if I do I can't do TTM (I do prefer it over copper and have used it in the past) so it would have to be copper. How do you do your prophylactic treatment and how long does it take? What dose do you use and how long would you take to raise it to the therapuetic level for this sensitive species?

Also, what about the Tupperware full of sand? Would that mess with copper?

I'll think about it some more and hopefully hear back from everyone else as well. I'm pretty sure @4FordFamily doesn't even qt his wrasse tank, but I may be mistaken.

Thanks!

 

[ngoodermuth]

Interesting. Thanks for your input. I really don't want to treat prophylactically but if I do I can't do TTM (I do prefer it over copper and have used it in the past) so it would have to be copper. How do you do your prophylactic treatment and how long does it take? What dose do you use and how long would you take to raise it to the therapuetic level for this sensitive species?

Also, what about the Tupperware full of sand? Would that mess with copper?

I'll think about it some more and hopefully hear back from everyone else as well. I'm pretty sure @4FordFamily doesn't even qt his wrasse tank, but I may be mistaken.

Thanks!

I use cupramine, and raise it slowly over several days (3-4) until it reaches .5. If you are using chelated copper (like coppersafe), therapeutic is 2 -2.5 I believe. Each uses a different test kit so make sure you have the right one. A Tupperware of sand won't noticeably effect the copper levels. Some recommend the chelated kind for sensitive species, I personally haven't had too many issues with ionic. My leopard wrasse handled cupramine just fine.

 

[BigJohnny]

I use cupramine, and raise it slowly over several days (3-4) until it reaches .5. If you are using chelated copper (like coppersafe), therapeutic is 2 -2.5 I believe. Each uses a different test kit so make sure you have the right one. A Tupperware of sand won't noticeably effect the copper levels. Some recommend the chelated kind for sensitive species, I personally haven't had too many issues with ionic. My leopard wrasse handled cupramine just fine.

OK thanks. I have coppersafe and the api test kit. How long is your prophylactic treatment/do you maintain those levels?

What about the siporax and sponge filter, will they impact copper levels?

 

[4FordFamily]

FWIW I've never had issues with blue star leopards and copper. They seem pretty tolerant even long term and at high levels. I would also recommend treating them as they are frequently carriers of said diseases you cannot see on them.

Increase copper slowly

 

[ngoodermuth]

OK thanks. I have coppersafe and the api test kit. How long is your prophylactic treatment/do you maintain those levels?

What about the siporax and sponge filter, will they impact copper levels?

30 days if you are working with a single QT. The filter media is fine, just make sure you remove any carbon before treating.

 

[BigJohnny]

FWIW I've never had issues with blue star leopards and copper. They seem pretty tolerant even long term and at high levels. I would also recommend treating them as they are frequently carriers of said diseases you cannot see on them.

Increase copper slowly

Ok. I thought you did not qt wrasse for your wrasse tank though? Or was that someone else?

What if I only keep wrasses?

 

[BigJohnny]

30 days if you are working with a single QT. The filter media is fine, just make sure you remove any carbon before treating.

30 days? Wow. Already been 25, should've done it up front but I kept hearing leopards were so sensitive and to not treat prophylactically. There are a ton of others who don't even qt them.

Any idea statistically how many fish get ich. I got them from liveaquaria (not divers den).

 

[BigJohnny]

Are there any alternatives to copper with a shorter treatment time? I have my first child coming soon! Want to get them in the display asap.

 

[4FordFamily]

Ok. I thought you did not qt wrasse for your wrasse tank though? Or was that someone else?

What if I only keep wrasses?

I didn't at one point, then I removed them all
to QT them. It went well until my power outage while on vacation. I will not be doing ich management anymore for ethical reasons -- the leopards and halichoeres did OK but my fairy and flasher did not, it was 50/50 long-term.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Are there any alternatives to copper with a shorter treatment time? I have my first child coming soon! Want to get them in the display asap.

You can treat for 15 days if you can transfer to a second non-medicated QT without lowering the copper. I would also treat with praziquantel (I can't remember if you have already) two doses 5-7 days apart. You can do this in the second tank, while observing for any other signs of parasites.

The chances of infestation are pretty high in the supply chain in general, not specific to vendor. You might get lucky, you might not :/