What's the critical mass for Damsels to start coexisting peacefully?

[dtruitt]

Looking at some Damsels, I'm wondering if there is a certain point where there are enough that they start playing nice, so to speak.

I'd like to add 1 of each the following species to a 65G tank with 1 Springeri and 1 Cyanea:

Traceyi
Rollandi
Talboti
Parasema
Hemicyanea

This would be 7 Damsels of all different species. Would the different species be enough to discourage aggression? Or would it be better to double up on all of them to spread the aggression out?

I've seen holding tanks with dozens of the same species without issues, but they're quick to kill one another in smallish groups.

 

[bam123]

bad idea. don't do it. In general, Ok to mix same species if you have 5 or more, but in a 65 gallon tank its dicey. Just my opinion, but I've been in the hobby since we used undergravel filters)

 

[User1]

Genus Chrysiptera are the damsels you want to stay in for which most you listed are. That isn't going to be the issue since Chrysiptera are typically known for being more peaceful. However, the issue is the size of your tank. It isn't enough for that many damsels of any Genus.

It isn't about a certain point or time when things become peaceful but rather a display tank setup properly to support them. The onus is on the hobbyist to provide the properly sized tank, enough rock, corals, coral growth, and space for personal retreat time. Sleep. Refuge. Retreat. They will carve out a space, a territory, to call theirs and defend it.

Not knowing maturity of the tank, corals, and hard scape I think the answer is no. At least I wouldn't. I know someone with mixed in a 105 gallon tank but they have 5 I seem to recall. I also know there is the extreme side of things with @ca1ore who has 60+ in his 450 gallon tank.

I think a trio of the same would work but I wouldn't go mixing that many in such a small space but that is just me. They need things to break up the chase and a place to retreat to.

 

[Zionas]

I’d give 20 gallons per damsel. In a 65 no more than 3, maybe 4 and only if it’s a 4’ tank.

Personally I’m torn between the following options:

1. 1 of each: Blue, Yellowtail, Azure, Lemon.

2. 5 of the same: Azures.

Tank is 4’ just shy of 100 gallons (95G).

 

[mort]

When adding singles you are testing the aggressiveness scale of the family. Imo you greatly increase the risk that one species will become dominant and bully the rest whereas with a group of the same species, you have a much more level playing field. You can have groups of different species and they will bicker amongst themselves more, ignoring the other groups but this isn't really doable in a tank under a 100 gallons.

 

[Zionas]

I see. So in your opinion 5 Azures would be the way to go?

 

[mort]

I see. So in your opinion 5 Azures would be the way to go?

For the op with a 65g then I'd probably only suggest 4, so,they form two pairs at either end of the tank.

For you you might get away with more but if it's an odd number them you get a spare that breeding pairs will chase into no man's land. So I'd probably advise the same and just 4, 2 pairs for either end.

With these you either cram them in like mbuna to diffuse aggression or limit the numbers for a more harmonious tank.

 

[Zionas]

Thanks. I’ll go with 4.

 

[mort]

Thanks. I’ll go with 4.

Make sure they are young, so they pair.

 

[Zionas]

What size should they ideally be at?

 

[92Miata]

My limited experience with damsels is that the captive bred ones are way more peaceful than wild caught ones - so I'd concentrate on finding captive bred rather than size. (they're typically small anyways)

 

[Zionas]

Unfortunately in my country we don’t get Captive-Bred damsels. If only we did

 

[JumboShrimp]

To co-exist peacefully? An entire full-size ocean. (Just a little Monday morning humor!)

 

[User1]

To co-exist peacefully? An entire full-size ocean. (Just a little Monday morning humor!)

Lol. Yeah. They do have a bad reputation but when added to a display properly or at least with the environment bio type in mind they are great fish. Hardy. Color. Speed. Visible. Active. All great components of a display fish.

 

[mort]

What size should they ideally be at?

Maybe an inch to inch and a half. If you have a number available at the lfs then you can use the clownfish method and select the largest and a smaller one but they tend to come in small in my country with only large ones coming in when people break their tanks down.

We don't get captive bred damsels either, or at least not unless you really look hard for them.

 

[Zionas]

That’s what I thought. That’s the size I was planning on targeting anyway. Thanks a lot.

 

[User1]

We don't get captive bred damsels either, or at least not unless you really look hard for them.

I'm not sure how many are out there now that I think about it. BIOTA has one listed on their portal that I have considered a few times but not pulled the trigger on them. I hear their color is a bit different on these than wild but this is just second hand information as I've not owned them.

 

[Stigigemla]

I have 5 species in my 420 of almost 10 feet. In aggressiveness order it is the 2 Dascyllus marginatus, 5 Chrysiptera Talboti, 2 Chrysiptera rollandi, 5 Chromis retrofasciata and 3 Chrysiptera springeri. There is practically no aggressiveness agains other fishes such as Nemateleotris, Gramma or Synchiropus. The surgeons are so big so they dont care if a damsel tries anything. The marginatus is bigger and more aggressive than the other and the springeri has a hard time but they are spawning too. The Chromis is doing well escaping in corals or rock when hunted. In 1 or 2 seconds they come out again a few inches from where they went in the rock. It almost looks as if they are saying "Here am I. You cant catch me"

A few years earlier I had 4 species in a 64 gallon tank of 4 feet. It was in aggressiv order Pomacentrus mollucensis, Pomacentrus Alleni, Chrysiptera rollandi and Chromis wanderbilti. The moluccensis was too aggressive and the chromis to weak to function well. And the tank should have been bigger. A 6 feet tank I believe would have been better. The Chromis vanderbilti went to open water when chased an the free area was a bit to small.

I would never keep a big tank without a few damsel species. They add so much life to the tank and they are adapted to cope with other aggressive damsels. I have in the year I have had them in the big tank only seen 1 torn fin. (springeri)

 

[jt8791]

Any thoughts on Allen’s damsels in a standard aqueon 30 gallon macro tank as a single species ?

Got a 40# box of regular caribsea life rock coming in tomorrow and 60# Fiji pink live sand already in the tank. If they end up being as massive as they usually are I may have to stand them up tall and make more negative space.

Will see what I end up with and take pictures, probably move it around a few times before i epoxy it together. Don’t see more than 30# fitting with swimming room so may end up with rubble piles in the back corners.

These fish keep catching my eye and I like a fish with a varied diet, makes it much simpler to stick to one species. If they have a small footprint bioload wise I may have to lean towards more of them.

Let me know what you think, want to plan the whole build around one species and not much else seems to interest me. Almost tried lined sh but tank is too short

 

[mort]

Allens are a great damsel. I've had a group of 5 for about 7 years now and they do great together. The tank is bigger (5ft) and I have two pairs and a spare but it has enough room to keep out of the way when needed. They do group at night and when not breeding though.
My experience of them is that they do well in groups and I've always advised keeping them in a group of 5 plus, but I've had a few people who didn't do that we'll with this advice and the only reason we could come up with was they qt'd in a pretty bare tank. I think they need space to get away from each other when needed otherwise they can be over dominated. That is fine in the average reef but something to consider if you qt first.
I started with a group all the same size and let them sort out their roles in the hierarchy.