What's the most natural/self-sustaining reef ecosystem you've seen or built?

[raketemensch]

There's obviously a ton of technology and methods and vitamins and reactors out there.

What's the most balanced man-made ecosystem so far? Something that can almost feed itself via refugiums, coral/fish combos, etc?

I'm not looking for a lazy route, I'm just wondering what the most natural, self-sustaining "domesticated" tanks look like in 2019.

 

[CavalierReef]

Following with interest.

 

[gotmesalty77]

I hope theres pictures!!!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Interesting topic. I'm following too.

 

[hart24601]

With the term ‘all natural’ being so popular at the moment I would like to see this too. Something run with only sunlight, no artificial lighting or even heating. Almost no electricity used with perhaps an exception for a surge device. Also bonus points if not top off needed.

 

[sde1500]

With the term ‘all natural’ being so popular at the moment I would like to see this too. Something run with only sunlight, no artificial lighting or even heating. Almost no electricity used with perhaps an exception for a surge device. Also bonus points if not top off needed.

I could certainly see no lighting if using the sun, heat would/could be a bit of a challenge depending on local. No top off is impossible. Water evaporates, that's a fact of life. Oceans have top offs, so would tanks.

 

[Rjramos]

There's obviously a ton of technology and methods and vitamins and reactors out there.

What's the most balanced man-made ecosystem so far? Something that can almost feed itself via refugiums, coral/fish combos, etc?

I'm not looking for a lazy route, I'm just wondering what the most natural, self-sustaining "domesticated" tanks look like in 2019.

This has to be more specific to answer the question? You mention “technology, man made and self sustained” none of which happen “naturally” as it does in the ocean. Ecological processes in reef aquariums are natural but how we get there uses a bunch of tech equipment.

 

[hart24601]

I could certainly see no lighting if using the sun, heat would/could be a bit of a challenge depending on local. No top off is impossible. Water evaporates, that's a fact of life. Oceans have top offs, so would tanks.

Exactly. I would like to see how someone replicated the evap similar to nature. Could be covered/sealed system or some sort of condensation collectors made out of reef safe material that deposit back into the system. I don’t think it’s impossible by a long shot. Heck I have run sealed picos that are very low evap with sps.

 

[Paul B]

I am also not sure what the question is. I think my tank is about as natural as an artificial reef can be in a home.
I don't use sunlight but I wish I could. For ten years my tank was supplied with power from the 22 solar panels I had on my roof but I moved since then so I have to buy electricity like everybody else.

I do use a DIY ATO which uses no electricity and is gravity fed. There is a 7 gallon bucket suspended from the ceiling near the tank. Water automatically enters the bucket from a RO and DIY resin chamber. The water flow shuts off when full by a DIY mercury switch from an old thermostat. It is then fed by gravity to the tank where it is controlled by a mechanical float valve.

I run a reverse UG filter by a powerhead in the tank which is gravity fed by water exiting my DIY skimmer, then it goes by gravity to a DIY algae scrubber then by gravity to the UG filter. I have no sump. So that one powerhead feeds the skimmer, algae scrubber and UG filter.

Amphipods run wild as I collect them in the sea and dump in by the thousands. Thank God they are reproducing because here in my new home, although I am near the sea, there are no good amphipod hunting grounds so I have not added any in 2 years but they are still there.

I use all NSW now and I collect that in the sea by throwing a bilge pump into the sea and pumping water into my car.

The reverse undergravel filter allows oxygen to permeate all the way through the gravel to the bottom glass so the gravel is full of life which feeds the mandarins, ruby reds and pipefish and I don't have to feed those.
The larger fish like copperband and 25 other fish need to be fed.

There is some algae growing as well as cyano which various creatures eat.
I don't dose anything except calc and alk and I do that occasionally by hand as I have no controllers or reactors.

 

[hart24601]

I am also not sure what the question is. I think my tank is about as natural as an artificial reef can be in a home.
I don't use sunlight but I wish I could. For ten years my tank was supplied with power from the 22 solar panels I had on my roof but I moved since then so I have to buy electricity like everybody else.

I do use a DIY ATO which uses no electricity and is gravity fed. There is a 7 gallon bucket suspended from the ceiling near the tank. Water automatically enters the bucket from a RO and DIY resin chamber. The water flow shuts off when full by a DIY mercury switch from an old thermostat. It is then fed by gravity to the tank where it is controlled by a mechanical float valve.

I run a reverse UG filter by a powerhead in the tank which is gravity fed by water exiting my DIY skimmer, then it goes by gravity to a DIY algae scrubber then by gravity to the UG filter. I have no sump. So that one powerhead feeds the skimmer, algae scrubber and UG filter.

Amphipods run wild as I collect them in the sea and dump in by the thousands. Thank God they are reproducing because here in my new home, although I am near the sea, there are no good amphipod hunting grounds so I have not added any in 2 years but they are still there.

I use all NSW now and I collect that in the sea by throwing a bilge pump into the sea and pumping water into my car.

The reverse undergravel filter allows oxygen to permeate all the way through the gravel to the bottom glass so the gravel is full of life which feeds the mandarins, ruby reds and pipefish and I don't have to feed those.
The larger fish like copperband and 25 other fish need to be fed.

There is some algae growing as well as cyano which various creatures eat.
I don't dose anything except calc and alk and I do that occasionally by hand as I have no controllers or reactors.

Don’t you also run ozone and sometimes diatom filter along with that huge skimmer? Or did you stop?

 

[Paul B]

My Ozonator croaked before I moved here about 2 years ago so I have not added that yet but I want to start again when I get time.
I also use a diatom filter on my new NSW because I take it from the surf in about 4" of water and it is fullof chopped up seaweed, worms, sand, mud and bikini tops. It is also murky.

I also run my diatom filter a few times a year to stir up my gravel (due to the UG filter) and I like to blow out the pores in the rocks. I have to much encrusting sponge growing now which covers just about all the exposed rock so Ican't do that much any more.

I stil have that huge DIY skimmer

 

[raketemensch]

This has to be more specific to answer the question? You mention “technology, man made and self sustained” none of which happen “naturally” as it does in the ocean. Ecological processes in reef aquariums are natural but how we get there uses a bunch of tech equipment.

I was leaving it somewhat vague so as to see how other people would define it, thinking it would spark discussion.

I'm mainly interested in life feeding life, but it's such a broad topic that I'm sure there will be tons of things that surprise me.

I am also not sure what the question is. I think my tank is about as natural as an artificial reef can be in a home.
I don't use sunlight but I wish I could. For ten years my tank was supplied with power from the 22 solar panels I had on my roof but I moved since then so I have to buy electricity like everybody else.

There is some algae growing as well as cyano which various creatures eat.
I don't dose anything except calc and alk and I do that occasionally by hand as I have no controllers or reactors.

That's all incredibly cool. Obviously we can't remove technology completely, as there's at the very least a tank of some kind involved -- I'm wondering what various routes people have taken to get as close as they can to a balanced ecosystem.

 

[Ashish Patel]

My current system for sure. one that relies on cheato fuge,, dark cryptic fuge, Skimming, UV. I have a 15 month Son so my tanks has had 15 month of neglect (minus testing ALK, cleaning skimmer, and internal pumps), I really only did maybe 3 waterchanges in that time. Ecosystems do better when we observe the tank more and learn when to act.

Heres the sump and results.

 

[eschaton]

I have read that one of the critical flaws in basically all tank systems - outside of a few specialized displays in institutional settings - is basically that pumps, powerheads, and skimmers pulp a lot of planktonic life. Thus a lot of our fauna simply cannot reproduce sexually within the tank, and a fair amount of the natural food sources which would otherwise be available in the water column never get a chance to establish themselves (or are ripped to bits).

A better pump system than what we have available would be one which worked like a bellows, sucking water into an accessory vessel from the sump, then squeezing it up a secondary line into the main tank. I'm not sure how feasible it is that we could construct such a system at home however.

 

[raketemensch]

I have read that one of the critical flaws in basically all tank systems - outside of a few specialized displays in institutional settings - is basically that pumps, powerheads, and skimmers pulp a lot of planktonic life. Thus a lot of our fauna simply cannot reproduce sexually within the tank, and a fair amount of the natural food sources which would otherwise be available in the water column never get a chance to establish themselves (or are ripped to bits).

A better pump system than what we have available would be one which worked like a bellows, sucking water into an accessory vessel from the sump, then squeezing it up a secondary line into the main tank. I'm not sure how feasible it is that we could construct such a system at home however.

It seems like gravity might also be useful for this too, although obviously we'd have to get the water uphill somehow.

 

[Paul B]

That's all incredibly cool. Obviously we can't remove technology completely, as there's at the very least a tank of some kind involved -- I'm wondering what various routes people have taken to get as close as they can to a balanced ecosystem.

Running a diatom filter or some similar device to stir up the substrate or blow out the rocks is normal and natural as Typhoons happen all the time in tropical seas and IMO needed for a long term tank.

I have dove in the Caribbean a few times after hurricanes (typhoons happen in the southern hemisphere but they are the same thing) and I have seen elkhorn corals almost as big as my house up side down. I have also seen large sea fans and sailboats 100 yards up on the side of a mountain.

The seafloor is subjected to that event constantly and it is needed to eliminate dying or dead corals to make room for new growth. Thats why when we dive we see most of the corals are small like a few feet and not a mile wide. Remember corals live forever because polyps are constantly renewed.
During a typhoon corals are broken off their supports and go barreling across the reef like bowling balls breaking other corals loose.

This is Tahiti. All the corals are small and Tahiti has been there before Martha Steward was a model. (she really was) Why is that?

It's because of typhoons. We as aquarists fail to recognize this as a good thing in the sea and not the disaster it is when it happens on land where we live.
I try to make a mini Typhoon whenever I can to stir up things and keep the amphipods on their toes.





Rock gets clogged with dead bacteria and algae and becomes useless. Our piddly powerheads do nothing to clean out pores in rock but a strong diatom or other filter aimed at the rock and sand will work wonders to keep our tanks running and I have been doing that since Nixon was President.



This is a 2" drain pipe I removed from my last house. Water ran through this pipe every day and it still clogged. This happens to every "pore" in a reef in time which will cause what we call "Old Tank Syndrome". Eventually, when the pores clog, bacteria can't live there and do what they are paid to do so our tanks crash and we go on to work at Home Depot demonstrating how to use a power washer in the parking lot. ;Bucktooth

 

[GlassMunky]

My recently moved so the tank has changed a little bit, but before we moved, our 29G Biocube was the epitome of self sustaining.
it had a bunch of corals like Yuma mushrooms toadstools and hammers, and only had a single rainfords Goby as the only higher life form. As an algae eater, and being a tiny fish, we literally didn’t feed the tank at all, and only did a small 5-10G water change maybe 3-4x a year. The goby made enough waste to fuel the algae growth in the tank that he then in turn ate as his food.
the tank worked well like this until we moved and lost the goby. Now it houses a lawnmower blenny who is much too large for the tank but it’s a holding spot till the new big tank gets setup.

 

[raketemensch]

Nice, I’m planning for just a snail/hermit cuc and a diamond goby for non-coral life in my tank too. Potentially some blue-green chromis as well.