whats your thoughts on LiveAquaria and Divers Den

[lolgranny]

I’ve purchased 100% of my fish from la or dd over the past 10 years. We all are going to get some doa or ones that just don’t ship well and end up passing after a while. I’d say with confidence I’d only buy fish from them. They have absolutely the best customer service.

I’ve got copperbands, anyhias, tangs, you name it from both la and dd. No difference to me. Just nice to see what you’re getying sometimes. On the other hand I’ve got a chevron from DD and he came in looking terrible. They fixed the issue of course, but I trust either. I don’t have a QT, I have a stock of 40+ fish in a 400g and everything is healthy.

 

[curiouser]

Can we expand this thread to include corals? I've ordered corals from LA and DD since I got back in the hobby 3 years ago. Occasional problem with coral resolved easily with LA's excellent customer support.
Last order from DD had an aiptasia that I could see in the unopened bag growing on the small rock supporting the coral. I didn't even open the bag.
A single episode doesn't prove anything, but I wonder if other reefers have noticed any recent change in coral orders from DD.

 

[Robert Vacchiano]

TSM treats everything

 

[pdiehm]

I have never had a live aquaria fish or coral survive more than 30 days.

6 blue gudgeon gobies
Bi color blenny
Midas blenny
5 flasher wrasse
2 bangai cardinals
5 sps corals

All perished.

I will never spend another penny there. Each fish went through a planned 8 week QT process. All went through tank transfer except the wrasse. They were put in a 20 long holding tank with 25% water changes weekly for observation.

None of the fish ever made it out of quarantine.

 

[Rython]

In the past 3 months I have ordered 3 flasher wrasses, 2 fairy wrasses, and 6 anthias from DD. Of those, only 1 fairy wrasse and 3 anthias were disease free. Even though I quarantined and was prepared with a full arsenal of medications and hospital tanks I was unable to save 2 Of the anthias and all 3 flasher wrasses.

If you read their QT procedures it's obviously insufficient to prevent many of the common tank wipe out diseases. Even LA doesn't recommend you skip QT - not even for DD.

 

[Twolabs443]

I’ve placed several orders with LA in the past couple months. The selection and pricing are great, but unfortunately I haven’t had the best luck with them to this point. A good percentage of the fish arrive either DOA or pretty close to it. I don’t necessarily blame LA though. They ship out of California and I’m way over in Maine so it’s a heck of a trip for the poor fish to try and make. The customer service and guarantee make me want to keep trying, but I’m starting to feel terrible being the cause of so many fish perishing. I have picked up a few fish from my LFS, but often their selection isn’t that great.

 

[Neptune 2k]

Most of your LFS and LA get their fish from the same place...

VERY TRUE! Over analysis does bring on conversation though I see!

 

[408Dartfish]

I’ve had great luck with LA so far 11 out of 11 survival rate for 6+ weeks. 5 blue/green chromis, flasher wrasse, midas blenny, orchid dottyback, 2 pajama cardinal. No QT set up at time acclimated following LA instructions. I live in Oregon not far travel from California might help. Ordered my first fish and corals from DD getting shipped tomorrow. Dustin

 

[4FordFamily]

I will say they seem to ship smaller and less healthy fish than they used to, but I wouldn’t consider them a poor vendor as of yet.

 

[Conor Vaughn]

I will say they seem to ship smaller and less healthy fish than they used to, but I wouldn’t consider them a poor vendor as of yet.

 

[Conor Vaughn]

I used to orderly frequently from Divers Den (Wisconsin), never ordered from LA. I noticed a dramatic change in quality after Petco bought them and ended up deciding to never order from them again. The last order from Divers Den had poor packaging, a large Acropora that had significant fresh tissue recession on the base- as in, they sent it that way rather than damage during shipment- all fish arrived DOA and an urchin survived about two days post arrival. They were, however, extremely courteous on the phone and reimbursed without much hassle.

 

[lolgranny]

I have never had a live aquaria fish or coral survive more than 30 days.

6 blue gudgeon gobies
Bi color blenny
Midas blenny
5 flasher wrasse
2 bangai cardinals
5 sps corals

All perished.

I will never spend another penny there. Each fish went through a planned 8 week QT process. All went through tank transfer except the wrasse. They were put in a 20 long holding tank with 25% water changes weekly for observation.

None of the fish ever made it out of quarantine.

Not trying to shoot you down; but nothing survived from there??? I feel like that has to be some error on your part. I’ve been buying from them for 10 years I’d say. Hundreds of fish and I’ve never heard of something like this.

 

[lolgranny]

I’ve placed several orders with LA in the past couple months. The selection and pricing are great, but unfortunately I haven’t had the best luck with them to this point. A good percentage of the fish arrive either DOA or pretty close to it. I don’t necessarily blame LA though. They ship out of California and I’m way over in Maine so it’s a heck of a trip for the poor fish to try and make. The customer service and guarantee make me want to keep trying, but I’m starting to feel terrible being the cause of so many fish perishing. I have picked up a few fish from my LFS, but often their selection isn’t that great.

Some stuff out of Wisconsin, it’s their guarantee, they charge a higher price to provide that. I know what you’re saying, I’ve got a lot of fish through them and sometimes I’ll just eat the cost of one rather then call in because I feel bad haha.

 

[Neptune 2k]

The death of the LFS = the liability, and responsible reefkeeping is never on the customer. The consensus seems to be that taking a shot in the dark from a place with a less than 50/50 chance of getting good product, mixed with not the best reefkeeping experience is ok as long as when you screw up you can get your money back..

 

[Reef Box]

The death of the LFS = the liability, and responsible reefkeeping is never on the customer. The consensus seems to be that taking a shot in the dark from a place with a less than 50/50 chance of getting good product, mixed with not the best reefkeeping experience is ok as long as when you screw up you can get your money back..

Like I said earlier, I only have one LFS here in Paso Robles. I’ve tried to support them a number of times and I’m let down each and every time. I couldn’t care less about the money, I’m happy to spend it if I get a healthy fish or at minimum one that has a high Likely hood to survive.

 

[john472]

Try these guys for coral they are excellent suppliers! First rate packaging and have taken great care to make me a customer for life!
Starting July 28th, 2018 10:00AM PST
Legendary Corals is running a Summer Extravaganza Sale!!! Over 450+ pieces to choose from at HUGE discounts. All pieces are WYSIWYG. Take advantage of this incredible sale before it's gone!
As a rule I try not to get anything shipped to me past the state line. The LAX aquarium is supposed to have the largest shop on the west coast. I've seen you tube reviews on live aquaria and it seems like a hit or miss but they do try to work with you. QT I don't do. Once I've found a dealer that has a clean shop and I've bought there before with good results. With the summer heat and the attitudes of drivers live fish shipped are a crap shoot. Granted it took me four tries to find a LFS with a level of competence I can trust. Of course I've yet to invest in a fish that was over 50$. $ is a factor I would be tempted to QT after reaching the third digit price tag on a single item.

 

[PhreeByrd]

My (admittedly, few) experiences with both LA and DD pretty much echo most of the sad stories in this thread. I never had any success with anything shipped from anyplace but their Wisconsin facility, and even those were not trouble-free. Even snails and crabs had a roughly 20% mortality rate on arrival.

I don't care about the live arrival guarantee. Once the livestock is dead due to poor health, rough handling or shipping issues, it ain't coming back, even if I am reimbursed. The reimbursement is not the point. The health and quality of the livestock is the point. I find it extremely sad that these animals are wasted, and our chosen justification is that it cost us nothing in the end.

I only buy fish from a LFS. It is truly WYSIWYG, and I consider their tanks to be a pre-quarantine. They will hold a fish for me without any deposit or obligation for up to two weeks. I can feel pretty confident that if it survives in their tanks for a couple of weeks or more, then it will survive in mine. The fish also get a smooth, gentle 10-minute ride home in climate-controlled comfort. If you've ever observed the package handling processes at a UPS or FedEx facility, then you know how valuable this can be. If you have not, maybe you should make it a point to do so before your next online livestock purchase.

 

[pdiehm]

Not trying to shoot you down; but nothing survived from there??? I feel like that has to be some error on your part. I’ve been buying from them for 10 years I’d say. Hundreds of fish and I’ve never heard of something like this.

The fish I have currently were all bought at a local shop (about 45 minutes away). Identical QT process. 8 weeks, including a 13 day tank transfer process.

my new fish process is as follows:

Get them, temp acclimate for 30 minutes, if salinity is off by more than .003, I'll try to get that up, but I really don't like to drip acclimate due to the ammonia spike upon opening the bag. I put them in a 10 gallon tank and every 72 hours transfer to a new tank. After TTm, I place the floating sponge from my display into my AC70 filter on the 20L and from there, I observe for the next 6 weeks.

The only time I used medication in the 20L was with my tangs. They came out of TTM and were placed in the 20L with Coppersafe as a precautionary treatment for 6 weeks.

In my display I have 2 clowns, a midas blenny and 3 tangs. All healthy, fat. In my biocube, I have 2 clowns, and a bi-color blenny. All bought locally, all doing very well.

Maybe I'm really unlucky, but nothing I've gotten from Live Aquaria has ever lived past QT, and it's the same QT process that I've used for the fish I bought locally. those fish are in holding tanks with copper already, and maybe that's the difference. Who knows.

 

[Neptune 2k]

Small mom and pop store, with very little connections, or little means to get the “FIRE” is not uncommon. Who you know and what you spend is important for LFSs. Owners stuck in the past and young novice employees only working for a discount are also uncommon. So it’s best for most of America to venture online or travel for what they want. LA, you’re paying for a 14 day guarantee, nothing more. Add more money and DD will give you a pic! Feel privileged if your area can support 1 or more LFS. For those who don’t, I’m sorry. Perhaps get a job cleaning those dirty tanks and curing sick fish at your LFS and receive I discount as well. Perhaps sell more fish because you work there now.. I’m a consumer like everyone else here. Also a parent. Accountability is a lost art these days.

 

[Twolabs443]

The death of the LFS = the liability, and responsible reefkeeping is never on the customer. The consensus seems to be that taking a shot in the dark from a place with a less than 50/50 chance of getting good product, mixed with not the best reefkeeping experience is ok as long as when you screw up you can get your money back..

While the guarantee is nice, it's really not why I have gone through them. I'm fortunate enough in my life to be able to lose out of ~$50 here and there without a problem. But not only does my LFS have less variety in stock, it's often for substantially more money, without a guarantee of any kind, and honestly fish that sometimes aren't that healthy looking. Beyond the costs and guarantees though mortality rates of the fish is what really bums me out. the LFS likely gets their fish from the same suppliers LA does and experiences perhaps roughly the same losses that we all do. Mortality rates from collection to finally getting in and surviving in our tanks has got to be astronomical. Captive bred is looking better and better to me, but there again I always seem to run into limited selection available.