Where did my Ich come from?

[4FordFamily]

Although it is possible that someone cross contaminated (you or them) -- that'd be the only way.

I've not found a copper resistant strain of ich, but that cannot be said for velvet.

 

[NeptuneRjo]

Your best bet is resistant ich. We're defending algaebarn because you accused them of having ich carrying copepods with little to no evidence to back it up. Best of luck to you.

 

[Fishbird]

I would agree. Given that the first fallow/treatment with copper didn't work, I would be far more inclined to suspect the copper/treatment instead of AlgaeBarn. I don't own stock in them or work for them. It just doesn't make sense that they would include fish in their copepod system (they even say on the website that they drop ship from Biota now). Plus, lying to you would just be such a dangerous move. If anybody found out that they lied, they'd be toast. Why risk it. If you were interested in getting closure on your ich issue, I would look into copper resistance in ich and read up on the threads that talk about using different medicines to treat ich. Honestly, with the way so many fish seem to be constantly treated with sub-therapeutic levels of medication I'm sort of surprised that resistant parasites aren't more of an issue. Again, good luck!

 

[TerraFerma]

2.0 often isn’t high enough to eradicate ich, particularly given testing error. That’s why it says 2.5 on the bottle.

Probably would have been in better form to email algae barn directly instead of asking people that would have no valid opinions on if their copes might have ich.

 

[Fishbird]

“If it dries it dies” right? Can anyone dispute that? I dried everything and afterwards I soaked it in RO water for 7 days .The tank was empty and then I ran tap to rid of anything in there. New dry sand, dried my live rock then soaked in RO for a week.

I honestly don't know about "if it dries it dies". I have read that if ich is encysted on a coral (for example) no dip will touch it. I also would wonder if the cysts would be resistant to desiccation. And, as I said originally, I had rock that was not bone dry, but certainly out of water, in the mail for 4 days, and now that its in my tank anemones, tunicates, sponges, shrimp, and all sort of other things are coming out of it. Some of those things likely needed water and I think its just really really hard to know if every microscopic pocket in rock that is prized for its porosity is dry.

I guess my response is:
1) would guess that it would take much longer to thoroughly dry out live rock than we think

2) if powerful insecticides like bayer can’t harm a tomont then I think it’s worth exploring whether exposure to air and/or fresh water would.

 

[andrewey]

@Fowler freak I don't have any stake in Algaebarn, but I just wanted to share my viewpoint as it might explain why you thought people were upset with the title. I don't think anyone is denying that any vendor could sell you a product that could introduce ich into your tank. However, given the nature of how people browse this forum, I would hope that you could see how some might find the title of the post to be a bit "clickbaity", even with the qualifier of "possibly". Please understand, when I use the phrase clickbait, it isn't to be insulting to you, only to suggest that when I as a reader opened the thread, I didn't find the evidence justified your conclusion.

While I can't rule out algaebarn as the cause of your ich, I also can't rule out many other potential sources of ich based on your description. Therefore, I think it's a bit premature to sound the alarm. I think you've done a fantastic job of describing your unfortunate experience with ich and I think many members would love to go step by step and try and rule in/out possibilities of why your tank has ich, but I would just ask you to put yourself in algaebarn's shoes and what it would be like to run a business that depends on word of mouth. We're a very small community that depends on the feedback of others- that doesn't mean you should censor yourself when it comes to these businesses, only to ensure you understand the full ramifications of your words.

 

[Big G]

Did you do a skin scrape and then scope to confirm that the spots are c. Irritans? There is a skin condition that looks very similar but is a gram positive infection. It presents on fish "after" copper treatment with the appearance time varying.

 

[Fowler freak]

There are pros in our hobby that can guarantee no ich tanks. For most of us it rest in our tanks for years and because our fish are so healthy and well fed they never show the signs. Then something comes along like stress from one fish starting to bully another and it spreads like wildfire. This may have happened in your tank? When Algae barn first came on here they had some issues and where harpooned on here. Instead of denying and running away they listened and changed the way they now do things and have been pretty successful at it. So I am guessing that is why so many took up for them. At the end of the day hopefully all your fish make it out of this.

Thank you Alton I appreciate your invite/advice

 

[Fowler freak]

I did not big g I wish I would’ve but ive thrown in the white towel to ich. It’s just too much with the volume of fish and a 265 full of live rock ;(

Did you do a skin scrape and then scope to confirm that the spots are c. Irritans? There is a skin condition that looks very similar but is a gram positive infection. It presents on fish "after" copper treatment with the appearance time varying.

 

[Fowler freak]

2.0 was checked almost daily (Hanna) and treated WC water before pouring it into QT

2.0 often isn’t high enough to eradicate ich, particularly given testing error. That’s why it says 2.5 on the bottle.

Probably would have been in better form to email algae barn directly instead of asking people that would have no valid opinions on if their copes might have ich.

 

[charles watson]

Ich. Hate it. Lost my first fish to it in 1973. I believe I have some in the tank now. Fish (blue tang) will scratch sometimes. That tang 1 of 3 will show first. yellow and sailfin seem able to deal with it better. I have seen one of my chromises with what I believe was ich just a couple spots. Ich comes in the water. It is in the ocean that the fish live in. Fish die from Ich in the ocean too. But not all fish die from Ich. My tanks are what most would call dirty, I can't keep some corals because of house keeping. The fish are healthy, real healthy. I love it when they bite me. It is their tank not mine. I feel bad for you because I too have felt the sting of that parasite. My advice would be to let your tank get a little dirty, with live creatures. I have so many creatures that I didn't put in there it amazes me. But I believe that they are needed they keep the fish happy and healthy. Don't lose the enjoyment of that small ocean you have created. I hope you get through this. Ich is a bane, but it is a natural one. It is very hard to fool with mother nature. Don't miss out on the enjoyment of one of your fish biting you! If you are looking to have a lot of beautiful corals then set your tank up for that. I can't keep some corals not with this tank. But corals won't pull a arm hair out like these fish will. I hope you get to enjoy that tank more. good luck

 

[ThRoewer]

First off, I don't have any stock in AlgaeBarn and are not particularly fond of their pod mixes as I prefer single species bottles I can use to get my own cultures going.

If you know how copepods are cultured you would see that it is highly unlikely that Cryptocaryon stages make it into such a culture and even less likely that they last long in there.
And to get infectious stages all the way to your tank a Cryptocaryon tomont stage (dividing cyst) would somehow have made into the jar - which basically would require to soak the jar for a few days in a heavily Cryptocaryon infected fish system.

Most people don't understand Cryptocaryon and immunity to it.
1. copper only kills the free stages of Cryptocaryon but does nothing to kill its tomont stages.
2. under normal conditions the Cryptocaryon tomont stages can last from a couple of days to up to 3 months (the latter is rare but possible).
3. under anaerobe conditions (i.e. oxygen-deprived areas inside rocks or mud) Cryptocaryon tomont stages can last almost a year. (Dormancy induced by a hypoxic environment in tomonts of Cryptocaryon irritans, a parasitic ciliate of marine teleosts. - Yuho Watanabe, Kah Hui How, Kosuke Zenke, Naoki Itoh, Tomoyoshi Yoshinaga)
4. at temperatures below 19°C (no time to convert it in silly units right now) Cryptocaryon tomont stages go into a hibernation mode in which it can stay for at least 9 months.
5. ... do some research yourself on Google Scholar - it's all out there.

 

[Fowler freak]

Please don’t call out companies unless you are 100% certain it was the cause.

Your post is making me second guess using algaebarn and there probably not the culprit

I’ve been trying to change the title to my post. Can you guide me in the right direction?

 

[Big G]

I’ve been trying to change the title to my post. Can you guide me in the right direction?

How would you like your title to be re worded? I can help you with that action.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Nuked my aquarium and I mean nuked it! Coppered all of my fish for 33 days at 2.0 (Hanna)
After 3 days post QT I saw my blond naso darting around and breathing heavy. It came and went which immediately put me on alert. I thought maybe it was a reaction to the copper as some tangs will react in weird ways post treatment but alas I saw a small amount of ich on him that would disappear after a few days and show up somewhere else. My Tomini has a few spots too but again it wasn’t an outbreak just a few spots. I am not going to try to eradicate ich for this is my second unsuccessful attempt and I went above and beyond and I mean textbook. I will just do my best to manage and Will not over stock the tank while keeping tangs to a minimum. The reason for the post is to hear about people’s thoughts in regards to Algaebarns copepods possibly containing ich. If I could do it all over again I would’nt have “seeded” the tank with algaebarns copepods to eliminate that possibility because there is NOTHING else I could think of to have contaminated my display with ich, nothing. I called them and they said there aren’t any fish in their facility but that’s according to someone on the phone in a different state. I looked on their website and there aren’t any pictures/videos to prove anything either. I’m not saying that that’s where it came from 100 percent but I just can’t figure it out. I dried my rock then soaked it in RO for 5-7 days. Took out all my sand and bought new dry sand. Ran my empty tank with tap water for a week. Had it professionally buffed out to get rid of old scratches after I drained the tap water. I’m at a loss and the only thing I can think of is one of two things. Either the ich was able to survive in Copperpower at 2.0 for 33 days or there was ich in one of the 3 jars of Algaebarns copepods. I’m leaning towards the copepods and wish I never would’ve purchased them at this point. Would love to hear your thoughts my reef2reef family.

I can assure you that this did not come from out products. We raise our pods in fishless systems, because we do not carry fish in our warehouse. Our fish are shipped directly from BIOTA. We also do not bottle our pods in the water they were raised in, however we bottle them in freshly made RODI water. Hope this helps! ~ Shaun K.

 

[Fowler freak]

I’m guessing it was a ich cyst inside the 100 plus lbs of rock then. Oh well ich management it is ;(

 

[NashobaTek]

I have never purchased from algae barn, but I doubt the ich came from the pods.

 

[Squidward]

I would try TTM next time if copper have failed you. I know it's more work but it has worked great for me. Never had to mess with copper.

 

[cancun]

Wow I didn’t realize so many members had major stock in Algaebarn. My bad guys I said “Possibly” in the title and asked for opinions sheeeeesh relax. Ok let me break this down a bit More so maybe it makes more sense as I “possibly” didn’t articulate myself well last time
My first attempt irradicating Ich I ran the tank fallow for 85+ days with fish in 3 separate aquariums (far from my display)for there were over 24 fish many and them large so a daunting task to say the least. CopperPowered them all for over 30 days at 2.0 and observed after the treatment until fallow for 85+ days was completed. I put the fish back in and several months later ich came back. I did not introduce anything into the tank not even a rock/invert. This approach did not work for me and I followed every instruction from well respected members here. My second attempt which was given the okay from Again,we’ll respected members here, was once again unsuccessful. “If it dries it dies” right? Can anyone dispute that? I dried everything and afterwards I soaked it in RO water for 7 days .The tank was empty and then I ran tap to rid of anything in there. New dry sand, dried my live rock then soaked in RO for a week. All fish were copper powered for 33days at 2.0. No cross contamination the QT was in the garage far away from display and all inverts were in a separate qt tank #2 (78 days fallow) opposite side of my house far from my display and fish QT.
The only thing I can point at is the copepods I purchased from algaebarn and/or resistant ich to copperpower at 2.0. Thanks for your replies and appreciate the ones who displayed a little bit of empathy through text after reading the absolute hell I’ve gone thru with my 265 full of angels, tangs, and wrasses.

Wow.....I am sorry to hear of your troubles! I know this hobby can both be rewarding, and extremely frustrating at the same time! I am following along....by the way how are your fish doing today? What kind of Angels, Tangs, and Wrasses do you have?

 

[tehmadreefer]

Hmmm. Another omg my ich is back thread.

Makes ya wonder why most ppl have ich come back after qt, copper, etc. I know why!