Which hybrids are sterile and which ones are fertile?

[Zionas]

I’ve read much about hybrid fish being sterile, but to what degree is it true? I’m asking especially with regards to angelfish though I know butterflyfish and some other fish families hybridize a fair bit too. I’ve seen videos of angelfish hybrids forming pairs or harems with “pure” specimens of either parent species, but are they able to produce offspring that are also capable of reproduction? Usually this happens where both species are abundant and closely related to each other, or in places where one species meets with another at the edge of their natural distribution.

I also read an article that says sometimes even more distantly related lineages can come together to form hybrids, such as Flame and Rusty Angels.

Will a hybrid be sterile? Or are they usually capable of back crossing with either parent species? What about their offspring? (For example, a Goldflake x Griffis with a Goldflake or Griffis, or an “Armitagei” with either a Flagfin or Xanthurus Cream, or a “Maze” with either a full Blue Line or whatever other Chaetodontoplus was a parent of the Maze, perhaps Melanosoma or a similar species in that grouping)

Can 2 hybrids of the same parent combo, or at least from similarly related lineages be able to reproduce with each other? (For example, an Eibli x Vroliki with a Vroliki or Eibli x Lemonpeel)

All pretty fascinating.

Some other examples:

1. “Townsendi” with a full Queen or Blue Angel

2. Maculosus x Sixbar (happens in some African waters where the Mac is rare) with a full Maculosus or Sixbar

3. Koran hybrids with many other species with a full Koran or whichever other species was the parent of the hybrid

 

[LaloJ]

There are undoubtedly several species that hybridize, perhaps one of the most common is C.vrolikii x C.eibli, the Tigerpyge angelfish. At some point, C.eibli also does it with C.vrolikii, but everything happens within the same complexes, although I don't know to what extent the specimens are sterile, read the study that came out a while ago about hybrids carried out by Tea yi Kai and Joseph diBattista ??

 

[Zionas]

That’s exactly the study I was referring to. I’ve tried contacting Tea once about something else but he never got back.

 

[LaloJ]

A few years ago Tea was more participatory with us amateurs, I suppose that study and work have absorbed her time, from what I have seen, her passion is labridos.

 

[LaloJ]

Did you see the Pomacanthus xanthometopon X P.sexstriatus hybrid collected by RVS in Philippines? That was an absolutely awesome fish.

 

[Zionas]

I’ll check it out.

 

[Zionas]

Yeah I think that’s the case. He’s no longer playing with us noobs. XD

 

[Zionas]

That hybrid looks great: really combines best traits of both parents.

 

[nereefpat]

I’ve read much about hybrid fish being sterile, but to what degree is it true? I’m asking especially with regards to angelfish though I know butterflyfish and some other fish families hybridize a fair bit too. I’ve seen videos of angelfish hybrids forming pairs or harems with “pure” specimens of either parent species, but are they able to produce offspring that are also capable of reproduction? Usually this happens where both species are abundant and closely related to each other, or in places where one species meets with another at the edge of their natural distribution.

I also read an article that says sometimes even more distantly related lineages can come together to form hybrids, such as Flame and Rusty Angels.

Will a hybrid be sterile? Or are they usually capable of back crossing with either parent species? What about their offspring? (For example, a Goldflake x Griffis with a Goldflake or Griffis, or an “Armitagei” with either a Flagfin or Xanthurus Cream, or a “Maze” with either a full Blue Line or whatever other Chaetodontoplus was a parent of the Maze, perhaps Melanosoma or a similar species in that grouping)

Can 2 hybrids of the same parent combo, or at least from similarly related lineages be able to reproduce with each other? (For example, an Eibli x Vroliki with a Vroliki or Eibli x Lemonpeel)

All pretty fascinating.

Some other examples:

1. “Townsendi” with a full Queen or Blue Angel

2. Maculosus x Sixbar (happens in some African waters where the Mac is rare) with a full Maculosus or Sixbar

3. Koran hybrids with many other species with a full Koran or whichever other species was the parent of the hybrid

Usually, a hybrid is sterile. If I remember correctly, it's because the individual doesn't make gametes (sperm/ eggs) successfully. So the problem isn't in finding the right partner (as in the same hybrid or same species as one of the parents), the problem is the sterility of the individual.
There might be some outliers, but i would be surprised by any examples. That being said, fish reproduce differently than horses and donkeys making mules. Maybe hybrid clowns or wrasses or some angels which change sex could work. But again, if their gametes aren't formed correctly, then the genetic material just isn't there.

I wouldn't expect to get rich by breeding tigerpyge angels.

Lol. Kind of a tough discussion for a fish tank message board.

 

[Zionas]

Lol thanks for your insight! It’s a bit sad to know that the possibility of being sterile is quite high. But as you said hopefully it will be different for certain hermaphrodites like angels. I also wanted to find out because of what I consider to be an ethical factor, that I would have some hesitation getting a fish I know can’t reproduce.

 

[Tamberav]

Don’t know about fish but with bengal cats… cats that they hybrid with the Asian leopard. The first three generations of males are all sterile. However the females are not sterile but the litters of kitten they can produce is only 1-2. Not the half dozen or so a typical cat can produce. Once they reach the fourth generation (being bred back to a domestic cat) then things return to normal.

So perhaps not every fish would be sterile but they may also not produce enough eggs or viable offspring to make breeding regularly successful. I doubt anyone knows for sure as it probably hasn’t been tried often.

 

[Zionas]

Has anyone kept a Goldflake x Griffis hybrid? As far as I know these have been documented from the wild. What does a full adult specimen look like?

 

[Zionas]

I got a couple more pics. Would love to know if these are full Goldflakes or hybrids. I have my suspicions of the latter because the tails aren’t a solid black nor is the dorsal fin.

 

[LaloJ]

Those are lovely fish, I'm sure I saw one or two pictures of the goldflake x griffisi angelfish some time ago, it definitely retains more features of the goldflake angel but the touches of the griffisi angelfish give it a very pretty ghostly look and a pretty blue accent in the mouth nice.
I think the photos you show are from Bali Aquarich, although they must surely be A.xanthopunctatus x A trimaculatus, due to the features you mention, you can also notice the appearance of the anal and dorsal fins of the Flagfin angel.

 

[Zionas]

Yeah I am honestly very disappointed with Bali Aquarich for their choice of breeding this hybrid which many suspect don’t really exist in the wild. I would rather they focus on breeding “pure” Goldflake and Flagfin Angelfish.

Is the Griffis and Goldflake naturally occuring? If it is that’s really cool. I think it was mentioned (using pictures) in one of Lemon’s articles.

 

[LaloJ]

Goldflake x Griffisi is found in Nature, I don't know where these hybrids are being made but there are fish collected for the aquarium trade I'm sure.

 

[Zionas]

I think in Kiribati especially Christmas Island but maybe elsewhere too.