Which Live Rock and How Much to Cycle Tank?

[pinocchio]

I recently purchased a Pro Star 90 and will be setting it up over the next few months. I want to use live rock and was curious not only the proper steps of cycling the tank, but also what kind of live rock to use. Ultimately I would love to get some premium live rock, but some sites don't recommend that for cycling a tank. So I am assuming live rock labeled "starter" is better. If I wanted to add premium live rock later, is that something I could do after the tank has cycled? Also, seeing how expensive live rock is, I was wondering if for my tank (which is 63 display size) if 40lbs of live rock could be mixed with some dry rock and look and be successful?

Any and all recommendations on proper way to cycle, best places and types of live rock to buy would be appreciated. It's easy to get confused with all the different types of live rock, dry rock and the stuff called life rock.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dave1993]

is the premium live rock "cured" if it is get that you will skip cycle with that

 

[pinocchio]

is the premium live rock "cured" if it is get that you will skip cycle with that

What's the difference between cured and non-cured?

 

[Dave1993]

What's the difference between cured and non-cured?

Cured has been rested and has bypassed the die off = no ammonia spikes
Non-cured has most likely just been shipped from the ocean and will have die off = ammonia spikes

 

[pinocchio]

Cured has been rested and has bypassed the die off = no ammonia spikes
Non-cured has most likely just been shipped from the ocean and will have die off = ammonia spikes

Thanks for the info. Will cured rock have all the good nutrients and everything? What about hitchhikers? I'm also assuming cured costs more?

 

[Tired]

Non-cured live rock won't necessarily have much die-off if shipped in water.

You can absolutely mix live and dry rock.

Cured rock may or may not keep all the beneficial stuff, depending on if it's been taken proper care of or simply dumped in a dark bin for awhile. "Curing" is the process of letting dead things on the rock decay after it's been shipped in conditions that kill a lot of life on the rock, and isn't needed for ocean rock that's shipped properly.

Check out Tampa Bay. What they do is they ship the rock in two parts- one batch with base rock to make sure the tank is cycled, and then one batch of the premium stuff and cleanup critters, now that the tank should be ready for it. That said, you can get the base and premium at the same time, and simply be ready to do water changes if ammonia spikes. Which it may not, particularly not when you're ordering a relatively small package for the tank size.

Honestly, you could cycle your tank with a 10-pound package of live rock, either from KP Aquatics, Tampa Bay, or anywhere else you like. More rock = more premade biofilter and more critters, but if what you want is a cycled tank, a small amount will do that just fine.

 

[Dave1993]

Thanks for the info. Will cured rock have all the good nutrients and everything? What about hitchhikers? I'm also assuming cured costs more?

yes

 

[pinocchio]

Non-cured live rock won't necessarily have much die-off if shipped in water.

You can absolutely mix live and dry rock.

Cured rock may or may not keep all the beneficial stuff, depending on if it's been taken proper care of or simply dumped in a dark bin for awhile. "Curing" is the process of letting dead things on the rock decay after it's been shipped in conditions that kill a lot of life on the rock, and isn't needed for ocean rock that's shipped properly.

Check out Tampa Bay. What they do is they ship the rock in two parts- one batch with base rock to make sure the tank is cycled, and then one batch of the premium stuff and cleanup critters, now that the tank should be ready for it. That said, you can get the base and premium at the same time, and simply be ready to do water changes if ammonia spikes. Which it may not, particularly not when you're ordering a relatively small package for the tank size.

Honestly, you could cycle your tank with a 10-pound package of live rock, either from KP Aquatics, Tampa Bay, or anywhere else you like. More rock = more premade biofilter and more critters, but if what you want is a cycled tank, a small amount will do that just fine.

Thanks! Well ultimately I want to try to get the right amount of rock which is usually 1lb per gallon correct? Is it better to cycle with a smaller batch and then add more, or just add everything you expect to use?

 

[Tired]

1 pound per gallon is a rough rule for how much rock, total, you want in your aquarium. The beneficial stuff will colonize dry rock, so you could use, say, 50 pounds of dry and 40 pounds of live, or 80 pounds of dry and 10 of live. More dry rock means more space for pest algae to run amok until that rock is colonized, but that's not necessarily harmful, it just doesn't look very good for a bit.

You'll probably want to go ahead and get all your live rock at once, or in the two-batch method that Tampa Bay uses. Personally, I would wait a little while before adding the dry rock, to make it easier to catch any crabs or whatnot that need to be removed from the live rock, but you could go ahead and do the whole aquascape at once.

With ocean live rock, the tank is ready to stock as soon as any ammonia spikes from die-off are gone, regardless of if there's dry rock involved. You'll want to finalize your aquascape before adding livestock, though.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I recently purchased a Pro Star 90 and will be setting it up over the next few months. I want to use live rock and was curious not only the proper steps of cycling the tank, but also what kind of live rock to use. Ultimately I would love to get some premium live rock, but some sites don't recommend that for cycling a tank. So I am assuming live rock labeled "starter" is better. If I wanted to add premium live rock later, is that something I could do after the tank has cycled? Also, seeing how expensive live rock is, I was wondering if for my tank (which is 63 display size) if 40lbs of live rock could be mixed with some dry rock and look and be successful?

Any and all recommendations on proper way to cycle, best places and types of live rock to buy would be appreciated. It's easy to get confused with all the different types of live rock, dry rock and the stuff called life rock.

Thanks in advance!

gulf coast rock has excellent but aquacultured and premium also acceptable

 

[pinocchio]

Is there a “preferred” ratio of live and dry rock? Also how long will it take for the dry rock to match the live rock?

 

[Jekyl]

Is there a “preferred” ratio of live and dry rock? Also how long will it take for the dry rock to match the live rock?

If live rock is used in conjunction with dry a cycle won't really be a concern. The dry rock will have to go through the same maturing process as usual though. Still want to add fish slowly either way.

 

[Tired]

Dry rock will take years to approach its neighbors in terms of sheer biodiversity, but you'd probably be looking at a year or less, depending on conditions, for it to look more or less the same to the eye. You can use the dry rock as the less visible base that stuff gets stacked on to help reduce the effect of the dry rock being visible.

As long as you don't need the tank to be instantly able to support a lot of fish, which you shouldn't really be attempting, any reasonable amount of live rock should do the trick. I don't know that there's an exact ratio that works best, and if there is, it's likely not a significant improvement. Live rock is dense enough in bacteria and life that it doesn't take much of it to cycle your tank, and the bacteria and algae are happy to spread from there.

 

[ReefGeezer]

If you are going to spend the money for live rock and sand, don't compromise. Don't use any dry rock. It defeats the purpose of starting with live rock. Tampa Bay Saltwater, KP Aquatics, and GulfLiveRock.com all have great products. A couple lbs of the Austrailian live rock added a little later might provide a little more diversity. It is best to have the rock shipped in water. That will reduce the risk of die off. Use "base" live rock to build your reef and stock your refugiuim (if you have one). The tank will immediately support a couple of fish. From there, it is a strategic stocking kind of thing. There won't ever be a cycle if done correctly. Check out the article linked in my signature for more info.

 

[brandon429]

read this thread start to finish

A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

I'm at river city Aquatics in Austin rn Now this is skip cycle live rock If kept wet in saltwater it will not: Starve Get uncycled Fail to skip cycle Cause a mini cycle See all the coralline The bottom of the tank has pods and micro brittle stars, all healthy proof of being cycled with no...

www.reef2reef.com

it shows where to get pure skip cycle live rock. zero cycle wait. read up on fish disease, skipping that will kill your fish, not the cycle, we handle the cycle above without any testing.

the thread covers every possible detail of identifying and locating cured live rock.

 

[brandon429]

look how simple it was: rocks from a pet shop with just coralline are skip cycle live rocks, they're wet.

rocks shipped to you from TBS or the gulf aren't found in a pet store, they have to be shipped, you cure those with a ten day wait + lots of water changes. go with the pet store kind we show.

 

[Tired]

Eh, you won't always wind up with an ammonia spike from ocean rock. I got some in from Tampa Bay, base and live at the same time- no ammonia spike. And there's no harm in a 10-day wait, especially considering the advisability of proper quarantine for fish.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed

I'm predicting their api .5 readings

I bet on seneye, the bulk majority of uncured rocks aren't mini cycling, since any dieoff isn't instant but slowed

 

[Tired]

Plus, there's a massive amount of bacteria to deal with whatever ammonia shows up. I'd bet money that ammonia is being produced, just not in amounts that overwhelm all that bacteria.

Don't get me wrong, instant-cycle rock from a LFS is good stuff, but it does require someone have a LFS that sells instant-cycle rock. It also may have been in the same system as a bunch of stressed just-from-wholesaler fish, so it has a higher chance of some sort of pathogen having hitched a ride.

Instant-cycle rock is great, but IMO, "eh, wait a week, maybe do a water change, and enjoy all your critters" rock is just as good. Plus, it comes with the unboxing and seeing what all you've gotten, which is great fun if you like critters. I have so many decorator crabs now.
(Granted, if someone's creeped out by creepy-crawlies, they might not want ocean live rock. Unless they want to try some exposure therapy.)

 

[wtdenk]

I have two tanks. One started with dry marco rock that I sculpted into a beautiful scape that I'm very proud of, about a year old. The other is a tank started with a mix of Premium and base ocean rock, about 6 months old.

My dry rock tank has gone through every single stage of uglies imaginable including diatoms, bryopsis, dinos, bubble algae, ulva, red turf algae, and hair algae. Never ending battle so far. I'm only winning it with shear perseverance.

My ocean rock tank literally has been almost hands off. I use virtually the same methods for both tanks, and haven't been careful sanitizing everything before possible cross contamination. There has been no pest algae whatsoever in the ocean rock tank. In that regard it's hard not to recommend going with true live rock.

The downside is the unknown and the evolution of some of the hitchhikers and "pests" on the live rock. The amount of worms I've found with little or scant information on the internet to help identify is troublesome. Harmless so far, but definitely predator worms. How big will some get? Will they start going after inverts then fish? How about these weird invasive sponges that have attached to the bases and in between some polyps of lps/softies? I've been removing them, but I have no idea how harmful or harmless they are. Will this beautiful lightbulb anemone that's grown to be the size of a baseball ever decide to replicate itself all over the rocks like aiptasia? Was that a baby whelk? Who knows.