White stringy poop on my clown

about76gnomes

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Hey everyone, today I noticed one of my clowns had about a 3/4" long strand of poop hanging from him. They're fairly new to the tank, but seem extremely healthy and show no adverse signs of any issues.

I know that long, white, stringy poop is a symptom of internal parasites but from what I've read feeding them frozen brine shrimp can also cause this and appear as if there is an issue when there may not be one. They are still juvenile and have been in the tank about 2 weeks, so their only diet currently is frozen brine shrimp every other day until I start incorporating different types of foods in their diet in the coming weeks.

Should I have any cause for concern and treat the tank for parasites or just continue to monitor in case it's nothing more than a side effect from their diet being only frozen brine shrimp?

In case I do have to treat, what are your best recommendations?

The current inhabitants are 2 clowns, 1 fire shrimp, and a few softie/LPS corals.

TIA!
 

vetteguy53081

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often feeding both brine shrimp ands mysis shrimp will mimic white poop and excite a clown owner in a hurry.
Brine shrimp is not a total diet. Cease feeding brine and add foods such as :
Hikari Marine cuisine
small plankton
Formula 1 frozen

In 48 hours after stopping Brine shrimp, see if poop color changes. Then you will know.
I assume fish is eating and breathing and swimming normally ?
 
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about76gnomes

about76gnomes

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often feeding both brine shrimp ands mysis shrimp will mimic white poop and excite a clown owner in a hurry.
Brine shrimp is not a total diet. Cease feeding brine and add foods such as :
Hikari Marine cuisine
small plankton
Formula 1 frozen

In 48 hours after stopping Brine shrimp, see if poop color changes. Then you will know.
I assume fish is eating and breathing and swimming normally ?
Got it, will look into those foods and decide which one to go with and then monitor the poops.

Thank you!
 

Jay Hemdal

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Got it, will look into those foods and decide which one to go with and then monitor the poops.

Thank you!

Also - did you say you are feeding it every other day? You should feed small clownfish 2x / day or more, small amounts. As @vetteguy53081 said, frozen brine shrimp is a really poor diet, I only use it to get a new fish started on feeding. If the clowns are small, you may need to get small pellets, and dice up any mysids into tiny pieces for them.

Jay
 
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about76gnomes

about76gnomes

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Also - did you say you are feeding it every other day? You should feed small clownfish 2x / day or more, small amounts. As @vetteguy53081 said, frozen brine shrimp is a really poor diet, I only use it to get a new fish started on feeding. If the clowns are small, you may need to get small pellets, and dice up any mysids into tiny pieces for them.

Jay
Brine shrimp isn't what I plan on feeding them, they've only been in the tank just short of 2 weeks so I was using the brine shrimp and planned on switching to a more complete diet this coming week so I ordered some Hikari Marine-S.

I've usually fed all my tanks in the past every other day and never had any issues. I guess the habit started from when I first got into the hobby and had a bad habit of overfeeding, so I started doing every other day and figured underfeeding a bit is always better than overfeeding. I'll take your advice into account though and start feeding them a little more frequently to see what happens.
 

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Brine shrimp isn't what I plan on feeding them, they've only been in the tank just short of 2 weeks so I was using the brine shrimp and planned on switching to a more complete diet this coming week so I ordered some Hikari Marine-S.

I've usually fed all my tanks in the past every other day and never had any issues. I guess the habit started from when I first got into the hobby and had a bad habit of overfeeding, so I started doing every other day and figured underfeeding a bit is always better than overfeeding. I'll take your advice into account though and start feeding them a little more frequently to see what happens.
Overfeeding is mainly an issue if uneaten food remains…feed small amounts and ensure it is all eaten and you won’t have any issues. If overfed for a long time, some fish will become obese, but you’ll see them start to get fat and you can then adjust the amount.
Jay
 
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about76gnomes

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Overfeeding is mainly an issue if uneaten food remains…feed small amounts and ensure it is all eaten and you won’t have any issues. If overfed for a long time, some fish will become obese, but you’ll see them start to get fat and you can then adjust the amount.
Jay
I appreciate the help, I guess change isn't always a bad thing haha. I'll switch it up
 

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Why is frozen adult artemia really a poor diet? I do not ask about 3 days old babys (that is poor in nutrient because they have not start to eat and have consumed their egg sack) - but adult artemia harvest from the wild.

Sincerely Lasse
 
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Why is frozen adult artemia really a poor diet? I do not ask about 3 days old babys (that is poor in nutrient because they have not start to eat and have consumed their egg sack) - but adult artemia harvest from the wild.

Sincerely Lasse
Ah! Wonderful read, thank you very much! I've had the fish for a little less than 2 weeks so for now I'll just continue to monitor. They are acting perfectly normal and eating well.

As far as why exactly frozen brine shrimp (I use Hikari brand) is a poor diet, I'm not versed well enough on the subject to know the answer to - unless that was directed at the prior comments from others.
 

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Why is frozen adult artemia really a poor diet? I do not ask about 3 days old babys (that is poor in nutrient because they have not start to eat and have consumed their egg sack) - but adult artemia harvest from the wild.

Sincerely Lasse

It is low in some essential fatty acids, but the big issue is handling and sourcing: here in the US, it is shipped by truck and during that process tends to thaw and get refrozen. This ruptures the body walls, and the internal material leaks out, leaving a mostly empty shell. If you can get true San Francisco bay Artemia, that has a better nutritional profile, but that is very rare to non-existent now days.

Jay
 

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It is low in some essential fatty acids, but the big issue is handling and sourcing: here in the US, it is shipped by truck and during that process tends to thaw and get refrozen. This ruptures the body walls, and the internal material leaks out, leaving a mostly empty shell. If you can get true San Francisco bay Artemia, that has a better nutritional profile, but that is very rare to non-existent now days.

Jay
I do nor really know how things is handling in the US - I use artemia in flatpack and - IMO - it is very easy to see if such a pack is refrozen or not. In a refrozen flat pack the content is uneven distributed. I think I have seen it once - and this is in Sweden and its imported from the US.

In my present aquarium - I only use adult artemia and freshwater cyclops from Ocean Nutrition. After have feeding only with this two foods for nearly 6 years (with exception of some frozen Mysis now and when) - I can´t see any disadvantages at all - but you need to feed with 5 - 7 times more frozen fresh food (in weight) compared with dry food in order to compensate for a higher water content. All of my fishes that can (read - I have both sexes) spawn - do that way in a regular way. My largest female of yellow wrasse get rather thin after each spawn but after a week or two - she is ready to spawn gaining weight and soon ready for spawning again.

Sincerely Lasse
 

Jay Hemdal

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I do nor really know how things is handling in the US - I use artemia in flatpack and - IMO - it is very easy to see if such a pack is refrozen or not. In a refrozen flat pack the content is uneven distributed. I think I have seen it once - and this is in Sweden and its imported from the US.

In my present aquarium - I only use adult artemia and freshwater cyclops from Ocean Nutrition. After have feeding only with this two foods for nearly 6 years (with exception of some frozen Mysis now and when) - I can´t see any disadvantages at all - but you need to feed with 5 - 7 times more frozen fresh food (in weight) compared with dry food in order to compensate for a higher water content. All of my fishes that can (read - I have both sexes) spawn - do that way in a regular way. My largest female of yellow wrasse get rather thin after each spawn but after a week or two - she is ready to spawn gaining weight and soon ready for spawning again.

Sincerely Lasse

In this case, the Cyclops is filling the nutritional deficiency. Frozen brine shrimp, as a sole diet is lethal in the long term, I've never heard anyone recommend that.

Jay
 

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In this case, the Cyclops is filling the nutritional deficiency. Frozen brine shrimp, as a sole diet is lethal in the long term, I've never heard anyone recommend that
It this an opinion or do you have hard fact to back these statements?

Sincerely Lasse
 

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Jay Hemdal

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It this an opinion or do you have hard fact to back these statements?

Sincerely Lasse

It is well known that Artemia must be supplementally fed certain HUFA profiles prior to freezing and use as fish food. There are some enriched product available, but standard frozen brine shrimp is deficient as a sole diet. If you try to raise moon jellies on Artemia naups alone, they will die. Same with larval clownfish. If you enrich the Artemia first, you get better results, but even better results are seen by adding just a few copepods to the diet.

Spotte's Captive Seawater Fishes has a good table on page 395. It shows the variation in fatty acids between different sources. It also shows no detectable amounts of 16:2w7 in all sources except small amounts in Artemia from San Francisco Bay and Italy. 22:6w3 is non-existent as well, except small amounts in Artemia from Brazil and Australia. He also shows it is deficient in Threonine. Total lipids on a dry matter basis drops from 23.2% in newly hatched nauplii to 7% at stage 12 (sexual maturity)

Jay
 

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It is well known that Artemia must be supplementally fed certain HUFA profiles prior to freezing and use as fish food. There are some enriched product available, but standard frozen brine shrimp is deficient as a sole diet. If you try to raise moon jellies on Artemia naups alone, they will die. Same with larval clownfish. If you enrich the Artemia first, you get better results, but even better results are seen by adding just a few copepods to the diet.

Spotte's Captive Seawater Fishes has a good table on page 395. It shows the variation in fatty acids between different sources. It also shows no detectable amounts of 16:2w7 in all sources except small amounts in Artemia from San Francisco Bay and Italy. 22:6w3 is non-existent as well, except small amounts in Artemia from Brazil and Australia. He also shows it is deficient in Threonine. Total lipids on a dry matter basis drops from 23.2% in newly hatched nauplii to 7% at stage 12 (sexual maturity)

Jay
You are referring to naups not adult artemia that have growing up eating algae and bacteria. I know this very well - I was one of the first using SELCO from Artemia System in Holland back in the late 80:ties for newly hatched COD larvae at a marine research station in Sweden. I´m not use these adult artemia for marine larvae and when I use artemia naups for marine larvae - I certainly enrich them in SELCO or something like that. It is in the development of the larvae that certain HUFA are essential - not for the grown ups.

Below its a table that compare the two frozen food I use Artemia and freshwater cyclops with a general well respected dry food NLS Thera plus A,

Note - I use normal freshwater cyclops that does not have the same HUFA profile as marine cyclops or copepods - but they are rich in antioxidants like astaxanthin - I do not use cyclop-eeze that´s not available any longer but if that product should be available again - I would gladly use that.

Sources - cyclops - artemia - NLS

Figures in yellow rows can be compared with each other

1652030454323.png


Sincerely Lasse
 

Jay Hemdal

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You are referring to naups not adult artemia that have growing up eating algae and bacteria. I know this very well - I was one of the first using SELCO from Artemia System in Holland back in the late 80:ties for newly hatched COD larvae at a marine research station in Sweden. I´m not use these adult artemia for marine larvae and when I use artemia naups for marine larvae - I certainly enrich them in SELCO or something like that. It is in the development of the larvae that certain HUFA are essential - not for the grown ups.

Below its a table that compare the two frozen food I use Artemia and freshwater cyclops with a general well respected dry food NLS Thera plus A,

Note - I use normal freshwater cyclops that does not have the same HUFA profile as marine cyclops or copepods - but they are rich in antioxidants like astaxanthin - I do not use cyclop-eeze that´s not available any longer but if that product should be available again - I would gladly use that.

Sources - cyclops - artemia - NLS

Figures in yellow rows can be compared with each other

1652030454323.png


Sincerely Lasse
You are comparing apples to oranges here - it is the HUFA content that is the problem and your chart does not show that.
Jay
 

Lasse

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You are comparing apples to oranges here
Maybe - but which is the apples and oranges when you use research according to needs of marine larvae and the needs of adult fishes or the content of nearly hatched naups with the content of adult artemia from its natural habit? You may be right - you may be wrong - but your way of argue does not back up your statement that
Frozen brine shrimp, as a sole diet is lethal in the long term
If you wrote " not enriched artemia naups as a sole diet for many marine larvae is lethal in the long term" I would be with you - but we did not discuss the rearing of marine larvae with artemia naups - we discuss feeding subadult and adult fish with adult frozen wild artemia. IMO - This is often how myths will be created and conserved - findings in one situation is carbon copied to a whole different situation.

I have feed my 6 years old aquarium wit with only frozen adult artemia and freshwater cyclops the whole time it has been up and running. In two of the public aquariums I have work in - frozen adult artemia and frozen mysis have been 98 % of the feeding for plus 10 years. I have not seen any trace of nutrition defiency or or premature death. Instead I have seen fishes that grow in a rate that correspond to their natural grow rate or slight faster and have a very good colouration. Compare these two fishes - same species - one been in my aquarium for 2 years - one less than 2 months. Two photos with different focus. Guess whom is who. The paler. new one has grown much slower in the wild compared with mine older one that have been in my aquarium for more than 2 years - you can see it on the proportion between the eyes and the body size. A fish eye tends to grow in the the same rate regardless of the nutrient intake (read body grow rate). The deeper colouration of my old fish is probably due to the high astaxanthin content of fresh water cyclops but wild adult artemia is known to contain astaxanthin too

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But let us agree that we disagree in this matter

Sincerely Lasse
 

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