Who do I need to remove to have a peaceful tank?

Flatearth

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
58
Reaction score
33
Location
Charleston
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So I have a 270 gallon FOWLR currently, and I have pretty much completed my stocking list. However now I have a problem, something in the tank is nipping and I just can't stand it!


My stock:

1 niger trigger( 3 inches)
1 porcupine puffer(4 inches)
1 bluespot toby puffer
1 female blue throat trigger
1 emperor angel(he is now dead, but would like to get another after I sort this out)
1 Swallowtail angel
1 flame angel(2 inches)
1 yellow mimic tang
1 tang whose name I forget I think it is called "Scopas"
1 longnosehawk fish(he is 3 or 4 inches)
Big Eye Black Bar Soldierfish(very small about 1.5 inches)
1 male lyretail anthias




Something bit and killed my emperor angel, took a chunk out of mimic tangs tail, bit the dorsal of the scopas tang, and nipped the tail on my hawkfish. The porcupine puffer kind of rules the tank, and has attempted to eat fish while I float them in the bag which makes me suspect him. I don't want to keep a fish that is going to bite the others like this. If not him I can't imagine who else it would be, feel like if it was the niger trigger I would see it happening.

He was my reason for going FOWLR in the first place, and without him I think I would like to just keep a more peaceful tank(although I do not really want coral). In order to achieve a peaceful tank I would need to remove both puffers, the niger trigger, and potentially the soldierfish as it will be a danger to small fish later on? With those gone it would be peaceful, could add some smaller fish, and maybe even be safe for snails+hermit crabs?


It is my understanding that the emperor angelfish is only aggressive to fish that will challenge it's authority which with the others gone would not be a problem correct, or do I need to give-up on the emperor as well?
 

nereefpat

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
7,929
Reaction score
8,686
Location
Central Nebraska
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Most of that stuff should get along okay. Emperor angels are tough customers. How big is the tank?
 

AydenLincoln

Pufferfish lover!
View Badges
Joined
Mar 27, 2022
Messages
4,878
Reaction score
7,216
Location
Easton
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
One of or more of the angels. They shouldn’t be mixed and could have been the cause/most likely were the cause. It’s not the best idea to mix angelfish even in a big tank due to aggression and being incompatible. But your plan to remove the large predators and get some smaller fish is a good plan. Or if you want to keep some big predators you could keep one puffer and one trigger and get more smaller to medium sized fish.
 
Last edited:

zoomonster

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
1,542
Reaction score
1,611
Location
Central Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'll put my money on the puffers and maybe triggers. Years ago, I tried a little bumblebee and he ripped up his fellow inhabitants. Granted all dwarfs and a pygmy but I have always kept Angels in my mixed reef. Currently I have 6 w/o any aggression in a 200g with a lot of rock. Do have an orange peel with an appetite for Wellso's I want the catch and be rid of though.
 
OP
OP
F

Flatearth

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
58
Reaction score
33
Location
Charleston
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
One of or more of the angels. They shouldn’t be mixed and could have been the cause/most likely were the cause. It’s not the best idea to mix angelfish even in a big tank due to aggression and being incompatible. But your plan to remove the large predators and get some smaller fish is a good plan. Or if you want to keep some big predators you could keep one puffer and one trigger and get more smaller to medium sized fish.


The swallowtail and flame angel are both so small I can't imagine them killing the emperor. The emperor was the only not-shy fish among them, and I added all 3 at the same time.

Also why would the swallowtail and flame then start nipping the tangs/hawk? That does not really make sense to me?
 

argiBK

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
663
Reaction score
693
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
How large was your emperor? Juvenile, adult? What size is your swallowtail?

Angels may quarrel with each other, but you’d easily be able to see any aggression between angels before it even gets close to one angel killing another. Exceptions might be large, warring adult Pomacanthids, or a Genicanthus male aggressively pairing with a female, or, a psychotic Centropyge (I find Coral Beauty, Tigerpyge, Eibli complex are the most aggressive) — still, the aggression will be constant and easily witnessable.

Tangs will chase and potentially nip or cut fins, so that may explain your mimic (Scopas tangs can get quite nasty, too).

My money is on the porcupine as your serial assaulter, i.e. if he’s trying to get at fish in the bag. Their jaws are strong enough to do rapid, immense damage even to your fingers if they have the opportunity. Possibly the Niger, but trigger aggression is also witnessable.

Otherwise, can you compare the size of the bite marks on your fish to any surviving fish’s mouths? Do some forensics?

Edit: Just saw this thread is months old! Did you solve the murder mystery?
 
OP
OP
F

Flatearth

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
58
Reaction score
33
Location
Charleston
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Did you figure out who the problem was??
How large was your emperor? Juvenile, adult? What size is your swallowtail?

Angels may quarrel with each other, but you’d easily be able to see any aggression between angels before it even gets close to one angel killing another. Exceptions might be large, warring adult Pomacanthids, or a Genicanthus male aggressively pairing with a female, or, a psychotic Centropyge (I find Coral Beauty, Tigerpyge, Eibli complex are the most aggressive) — still, the aggression will be constant and easily witnessable.

Tangs will chase and potentially nip or cut fins, so that may explain your mimic (Scopas tangs can get quite nasty, too).

My money is on the porcupine as your serial assaulter, i.e. if he’s trying to get at fish in the bag. Their jaws are strong enough to do rapid, immense damage even to your fingers if they have the opportunity. Possibly the Niger, but trigger aggression is also witnessable.

Otherwise, can you compare the size of the bite marks on your fish to any surviving fish’s mouths? Do some forensics?

Edit: Just saw this thread is months old! Did you solve the murder mystery?


Sort of. Turns out there was some sort of parasite in my tank eating their fins. I think the puffer did indeed bite my angelfish as he was highly fish aggressive, removing him just stopped the large bites. Smaller bite mark looking marks continued to appear on the fish though no matter who I removed. I sold all my "aggressive" fish like the trigger/puffer, and got more peaceful species instead however the marks never stopped appearing.


I lost a lot of fish, and contacted the previous owner of the tank who was very helpful when helping me set the tank up. He seemed like he knew his stuff so I was hoping he might know something. Well he told me the reason he sold the tank was most of his fish died from some parasite that eats the fish, and given that I set this tank up with his rocks/sand I guess I had it as well.



So now everything is dead, by the time I realized it was not a fish causing all this it was too late. Only a couple fish survived.


So I am taking the tank down and converting it to freshwater. I have smaller saltwater tanks I am going to continue to keep, but the giant saltwater tank has been nothing but grief so I need a break.
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 71 37.8%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 63 33.5%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 13.3%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 28 14.9%
  • Other.

    Votes: 1 0.5%
Back
Top