Why are all systems running out of bacteria?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have no doubt that there are inferior products, some that are totally dead, and others that are not even bacteria when new.

He indicated there were studies that showed using any bacteria in a bottle led to an unstable tank, and that is what I question whether there are such studies.

 

[Forty-Two]

The Shocking Truth About Nitrifying Bacteria

Tired of conflicting information from one bacteria product to the next? So are we! Get informed.

acrylictankmanufacturing.com

Atm is implying that some bacteria is being sold incorrectly. Would that be helpful.

That is perhaps one of the most bizarrely written articles I have read that attempts to pass itself off as data….I thought the author was gong to suggest hugging the bacteria and make sure to put it down for naps by the end….never mind the beginning with “Shocking…..”

 

[sixty_reefer]

I have no doubt that there are inferior products, some that are totally dead, and others that are not even bacteria when new.

He indicated there were studies that showed using any bacteria in a bottle led to an unstable tank, and that is what I question whether there are such studies.

Sorry miss understood the question, that may need clarification.

 

[sixty_reefer]

That is perhaps one of the most bizarrely written articles I have read that attempts to pass itself off as data….I thought the author was gong to suggest hugging the bacteria and make sure to put it down for naps by the end….never mind the beginning with “Shocking…..”

To say it’s coming from the director of operations I was expecting more wend I read the word’s article in it.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

A milliliter of sea water contains an average of 10 million viruses, 1 million bacteria, 1000 small protozoans, and algae (called protists). Costalwiki.org

How can this not be the most important aspect of the food web in our worlds oceans? How can we ignore this fact and think we can get all we need from non natural or lab grown cultures which have already selected the winners and loosers by the culture process. It seems to me both natural sea water and live rock may provide something important that we might be missing in our micro environments.

Just a thought...now back to the bottle lol.

 

[Double monti 61]

I maintain a 15 gallon tank with 2 fluval aqua clear 30 filters and a small controllable power head and an aquamaxx bullet 1 external protein skimmer and I use some ceramic tubes in the filters and lately 2 siporax nitrat-minus bio filter media I will call them balls for lack of a better term I have just added the siporax about 4 weeks ago because I was having a minor snot algae problem in the mean time I was using a filter media that was supposed to help, it did not but the siporax did without killing my beneficial bacteria!

 

[131696]

It would be helpful if you pointed out a single such study because I am skeptical such a study exists that shows a reef tank started with bacteria in a bottle will be unstable compared to an identical tank started with some ocean water.

Bacteria in bottle dies it does that why you have to keep adding it bacteria kills other bacteria in a bottle ,in the ocean everything is balance over a million years more stable to have ocean bacteria in a reef tank then in a bottle ,test it out start a new tank with only ocean water ,you will never have to add bacteria in it ever again It will be more stable because of balance in nature over millions of years To get that bacteria just right And not die off.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Bacteria in bottle dies it does that why you have to keep adding it bacteria kills other bacteria in a bottle ,in the ocean everything is balance over a million years more stable to have ocean bacteria in a reef tank then in a bottle ,test it out start a new tank with only ocean water ,you will never have to add bacteria in it ever again It will be more stable because of balance in nature over millions of years To get that bacteria just right And not die off.

There are so many things wrong with this post that I don't even know where to start...

 

[Forty-Two]

There are so many things wrong with this post that I don't even know where to start...

Agreed - however Im now wondering if I can do an experiment on this.....I have an extra small tank floating around and I'm close to the ocean. I assume others have done this experiment previously? I have to think about how to measure the results, or what the expected outcomes might be.

 

[homer1475]

Never used a bottled bacteria product in 20+ years of reefing. Ok chemiclean, but thats it.

Bottled bacteria is a relatively new thing(like the last 10 or so years), and has caught on from being pushed by manufactures so hard, people can't fathom starting a tank without it.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Agreed - however Im now wondering if I can do an experiment on this.....I have an extra small tank floating around and I'm close to the ocean. I assume others have done this experiment previously? I have to think about how to measure the results, or what the expected outcomes might be.

Will be hard to interpret a outcome from this experiments, as theoretically we could start a cycle with almost anything that contains organics and bacteria. I just had a instant cycle from aquatic compost, it’s not even a marine product.

 

[homer1475]

Aquatic compost? The mulm that collects in your sump?

 

[Forty-Two]

Never used a bottled bacteria product in 20+ years of reefing. Ok chemiclean, but thats it.

Bottled bacteria is a relatively new thing(like the last 10 or so years), and has caught on from being pushed by manufactures so hard, people can't fathom starting a tank without it.

I think there are a few contributing factors regarding your point that people cant fathom starting a new tank without it:
1) Live Rock is very difficult to get these days, and thus - its not a viable option, therefore people add Bacteria thinking its some sort of 'substitute' for Live Rock at some level (no matter how inadequate). Obviously you can achieve the results that most Bottle Bac provides by doing the "wait and rot" routine - by dropping in a fresh piece of fish or shrimp and waiting for it to break down

And more accurately:

2) Most people arent able to wait anymore. They have been conditioned through instant gratification to want now, and not have to wait. This doesnt bode well for many tank inhabitants, but it sure does bode well for the retailers/companies who sell the gear and treatments.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Aquatic compost? The mulm that collects in your sump?

No the stuff you use for freshwater pond substrate and freshwater plants.

 

[Forty-Two]

Will be hard to interpret a outcome from this experiments, as theoretically we could start a cycle with almost anything that contains organics and bacteria. I just had a instant cycle from aquatic compost, it’s not even a marine product.

Correct. We would need some way to measure with some reasonable accuracy the bio-diversity in the 'Ocean Water' tank, other than anecdotal observations that "less algae, seems to be maturing faster"

 

[homer1475]

I think there are a few contributing factors regarding your point that people cant fathom starting a new tank without it:
1) Live Rock is very difficult to get these days, and thus - its not a viable option, therefore people add Bacteria thinking its some sort of 'substitute' for Live Rock at some level (no matter how inadequate). Obviously you can achieve the results that most Bottle Bac provides by doing the "wait and rot" routine - by dropping in a fresh piece of fish or shrimp and waiting for it to break down

And more accurately:

2) Most people arent able to wait anymore. They have been conditioned through instant gratification to want now, and not have to wait. This doesnt bode well for many tank inhabitants, but it sure does bode well for the retailers/companies who sell the gear and treatments.

See this is the issue right here. The instant gratification people are used to these days. a SW tank is anything but instant gratification even with bottled bac.

 

[Forty-Two]

See this is the issue right here. The instant gratification people are used to these days. a SW tank is anything but instant gratification even with bottled bac.

Yes - its a major challenge for anyone that wants to be involved in this hobby. I dont blame the folks that suffer from this issue however (which is most people under 50-ish). These are deep seated issues, and not their choice for the most part.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Correct. We would need some way to measure with some reasonable accuracy the bio-diversity in the 'Ocean Water' tank, other than anecdotal observations that "less algae, seems to be maturing faster"

If you had two tanks and used one with NSW and one with synthetic salt both with a regular dose of ammonia you could test after a couple months with aquabiomics analysis to see if both end up with the same bacterial diversity. Theoretical the one started with synthetic salt and bottled bac should have less diversity. Although I believe that if both tanks were to be fed a couple brine shrimps instead of ammonium and a small fragment of live rock we’re to be introduced to both tanks they would end up with a very similar bacterial analysis.
Anecdotally that’s what we all do and end up with similar strains of bacteria in our tanks, regardless of what was used to start the cycle.

 

[Forty-Two]

If you had two tanks and used one with NSW and one with synthetic salt both with a regular dose of ammonia you could test after a couple months with aquabiomics analysis to see if both end up with the same bacterial diversity. Theoretical the one started with synthetic salt and bottled bac should have less diversity. Although I believe that if both tanks were to be fed a couple brine shrimps instead of ammonium and a small fragment of live rock we’re to be introduced to both tanks they would end up with a very similar bacterial analysis.
Anecdotally that’s what we all do and end up with similar strains of bacteria in our tanks, regardless of what was used to start the cycle.

That's interesting regarding the last point. Id be curious to find out why that happens, and what data is available on that.

 

[homer1475]

EDIT:
Wrong thread!