Why can't I have nice things... and by that, I mean SPS.

[Tamberav]

Here is the old tank, all the rocks moved over, minus the zoa garden

Beautiful tank. How did SPS fair in this one?

 

[DrZoidburg]

Honestly I blame one or the other swing , or other coral. I also ask when last added something cause sometimes when corals die they release hormones telling others to die. Also some people swear by iodine or Sr levels it could be anything really.

 

[New&no clue]

At first glance a few things come up.

Phosphates do seem a bit high, but not enough where it would be killing SPS.

What temp do you keep the tank? How stable is the temp? Acros really don't like the temp changing too much.

Alk seems fine but how stable is it? I know I had alk stability issues for a week and ended up loosing most of my SPS. To test this, test your alk at the same time everyday over three or four days.

People saying your tank is too young, I don't get why. If you've taken rock that was previously set up then there shouldn't be any issue with that. I was growing SPS long before I saw any coralline algae growing in my tank.

The next thought would be to look at stray voltage and heavy metals just to cross those off your list.

Also with the carbon, that seems like an awful lot of carbon to be running. Is there a specific reason you run carbon? Realistically you should only run carbon if you know your corals are doing chemical warfare or if your water isn't clear. Even then, you really don't need a whole lot of carbon and you don't need to run it 24/7. Some say it is possible to strip too much from the water with carbon, though the effects of doing so aren't agreed upon. So again, don't think this is your issue but wanted to mention this. Also, if you want to test if your water is clear or not, the best way is to take a bit of tank water and put it in a white Styrofoam cup. You'll be able to easily tell if its clear or not.

The temperature in the tank is 78.5, controlled with an inkbird. However, I have noticed it fluctuates up and down some. And I have read and seen that some people have issues with accuracy with them.

I test my ALK each week at the same time, and they are typically within 8.8-8.6. However, I will try to do daily testing and see if the numbers are different.

I do have a grounding probe in there, but I haven't tested for stray voltage. All the equipment is new, a couple of months old. So I would hope I don't have any corrosion issues for metals or voltage to leak in.

I run carbon because my old tank was mainly softies, one rock is all softies, and chemical warfare was a daily accuracy. I added three bags of carbon to the old tank, and it seemed to stop. I started this tank with carbon, but I don't know if it is doing anything. I could stop running it or just run it on a timer to see any change.

 

[Tamberav]

My comment on your young tank has to do with bacteria. Someone saying their young tank grows corals just fine doesn't mean much as the bacterial make up from tank to tank can vary so much.

When I look at your tank, I don't see any outliers from testing that should outright kill hardy SPS into flesh peeling problems.

FYI I have many large leathers and a rock of SPS and I don't use carbon and it's only 80 gallons. I can't explain it so I won't try. I think blaming the leather in your much bigger tank with carbon is just an easy thing to point a finger at. Maybe they could slow growth but outright just flesh peeling killing... eehhh.

Coral-Bacteria Communities are WAY More Important than Anyone Thought | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Reading through different coral scientific publication, we came across one, that could be quite relevant for us reef aquarist. In this publication published in Nature, scientist from the Red Sea…

reefbuilders.com

All I am saying... is this is a possibility if no other cause can be found/fixed. It sometimes just takes time and diversity.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

The temperature in the tank is 78.5, controlled with an inkbird. However, I have noticed it fluctuates up and down some. And I have read and seen that some people have issues with accuracy with them.

I test my ALK each week at the same time, and they are typically within 8.8-8.6. However, I will try to do daily testing and see if the numbers are different.

I do have a grounding probe in there, but I haven't tested for stray voltage. All the equipment is new, a couple of months old. So I would hope I don't have any corrosion issues for metals or voltage to leak in.

I run carbon because my old tank was mainly softies, one rock is all softies, and chemical warfare was a daily accuracy. I added three bags of carbon to the old tank, and it seemed to stop. I started this tank with carbon, but I don't know if it is doing anything. I could stop running it or just run it on a timer to see any change.

I would recommend an icp test and voltage test. I’m not familiar with your light fixture but your leds could be burning your acros if they are mounted too close, regardless of par. My hydras need to be mounted much higher than other led modules.

I would cut way back on the carbon.
Those filter mats look cool but I would never use one on my sps tank. I’m afraid they would over strip my water and starve my sps.

 

[Tamberav]

Another interesting article about dry vs live rock bacterial communities:

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

Studying the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium shows that high-quality live rock promotes the rapid establishment of an effective biological filter and a microbial community similar to those found in mature reef tanks.

www.reef2reef.com

and an entire 43 page discussion about it.

Why cant u keep sps?

Well first and for most im not a scientist or marine biologist my theory base only on my experience and observation on my reef tank. I just want to help those that have problems keeping sps. In this discussion please keep it positive and dont make it to “i know better than u or led is better...

www.reef2reef.com

Honestly I hope it is something as easy as cutting out the carbon. It CAN be harsh but this is also something to think about if no cause can be found and you beat your head on the wall for the next month or so.

 

[New&no clue]

@Charlies Frags That's not a fair assessment because everyone's tank is different. Those numbers work for you your tank is also established more, close to redfield ratio, so is she though. I think maybe more of a stability thing. Coralline sensitive to this too, is why you don't see a ton of it. How big are day night swings? When last time added anything? Any other coral maybe toxic to sps?

I'm not sure about the day and night swings. I do have a refugium with chaeto, bubble algae, and GHA with the light on the opposite schedule as the DT. I have tested PH at mid-day and midnight, and it doesn't change much 7.9-8.0. The last thing I added was a couple of clams at the start of the month. I have both softies and LPS, and those are doing good.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I'm not sure about the day and night swings. I do have a refugium with chaeto, bubble algae, and GHA with the light on the opposite schedule as the DT. I have tested PH at mid-day and midnight, and it doesn't change much 7.9-8.0. The last thing I added was a couple of clams at the start of the month. I have both softies and LPS, and those are doing good.

When did you last change all your ro/di filters?

 

[New&no clue]

Beautiful tank. How did SPS fair in this one?

I had the same problem with this one. However, I always blamed my lights as they were not great. The highest PAR I had was around 200, and that was at the highest rock with softies all around. I had tried on a lower rock, and they died within a couple of days. I stopped trying and decided to wait until I had a new tank with better lights.

 

[Hermie]

I find that some SPS are hardier than others
Also salinity swings really hurt mine

 

[New&no clue]

When did you last change all your ro/di filters?

It has been a while. I always check my TDS when making water, always zero, and I have the color-changing media that is only about half brown.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

It has been a while. I always check my TDS when making water, always zero, and I have the color-changing media that is only about half brown.

Get an icp test
I like ati bc it includes a ro sample and shipping

 

[DrZoidburg]

I don't exactly think lighting would be an issue if you have lps frags there too. I agree could get nitrate up a little but removing carbon worthless it wont strip nutrients cause it wont catch dissolved nitrates. Don't think an icp test would hurt. Does it rtn from top or bottom? Try any thing like the easiest of easy? For example at like month 8 I could only keep stylos. Took 2 yrs b4 I could keep any acro. In a sense agree/disagree with Tamberav. Check any of the frags for any critters? Check iodine levels (call me crazy)

 

[DC Reefer]

Lots of good and often conflicting advice here. I would take it slow and don't adjust multiple things at once. I agree with steady Alk for SPS and I don't like to see mine move more than .2 dkh during a 24 hour period and if it gets out of my preferred range I try to make adjustments over multiple days to get it back in range.

ICP tests can be helpful to find a potential problem and or rule out other things as a problem.

Also I have found lack of light doesn't kill SPS quickly. I have had some thrive with PAR in mid 100s. I would acclimate the SPS slowly when you add them. Start low and move them up a little higher each week in the tank until you get them where you want them. Alternatively you can turn the lights down and ramp them up a little each week. the downside to the lights method is it kinda impacts everything in the tank vs just the corals you are trying to acclimate.

 

[New&no clue]

Lots of good and often conflicting advice here. I would take it slow and don't adjust multiple things at once. I agree with steady Alk for SPS and I don't like to see mine move more than .2 dkh during a 24 hour period and if it gets out of my preferred range I try to make adjustments over multiple days to get it back in range.

ICP tests can be helpful to find a potential problem and or rule out other things as a problem.

Also I have found lack of light doesn't kill SPS quickly. I have had some thrive with PAR in mid 100s. I would acclimate the SPS slowly when you add them. Start low and move them up a little higher each week in the tank until you get them where you want them. Alternatively you can turn the lights down and ramp them up a little each week. the downside to the lights method is it kinda impacts everything in the tank vs just the corals you are trying to acclimate.

I try to acclimate over a couple of weeks. I have read that corals can survive at light lower than they need much longer than lights too high. I have a coral rack, and when I get orders in, I start them all on the rack at the bottom and then move it up a little each day. However, now I question if my PAR meter was off or if the lights are just too close to the water.

 

[DC Reefer]

I try to acclimate over a couple of weeks. I have read that corals can survive at light lower than they need much longer than lights too high. I have a coral rack, and when I get orders in, I start them all on the rack at the bottom and then move it up a little each day. However, now I question if my PAR meter was off or if the lights are just too close to the water.

Not familiar with those lights. I would look into the optimal height. I would expect someone has tested them for spread and hot spots at different heights. I know BRS does a lot of that type of testing so may be a place to look.

 

[Hillerd86]

So one thing I tried was doing one of the API water test kits you ship out. It will give you a lab accurate reading of every element.
I had an issue with my Montis bleaching and found out that my iodine was super low.
Started dosing the iodine and they bounced back in a few weeks!

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Lots of good and often conflicting advice here. I would take it slow and don't adjust multiple things at once. I agree with steady Alk for SPS and I don't like to see mine move more than .2 dkh during a 24 hour period and if it gets out of my preferred range I try to make adjustments over multiple days to get it back in range.

ICP tests can be helpful to find a potential problem and or rule out other things as a problem.

Also I have found lack of light doesn't kill SPS quickly. I have had some thrive with PAR in mid 100s. I would acclimate the SPS slowly when you add them. Start low and move them up a little higher each week in the tank until you get them where you want them. Alternatively you can turn the lights down and ramp them up a little each week. the downside to the lights method is it kinda impacts everything in the tank vs just the corals you are trying to acclimate.

New study documents increased growth of staghorn Acropora in higher phosphate levels | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Acropora corals are a mysterious creature with complex needs and one of those that we thought we’d nailed long ago was their “need” for minimal phosphate concentration in the water. A new study by…

reefbuilders.com

Phosphate Ramblings

Below is a short write up that I have sent to countless friends and customers of mine who are experiencing some kind of issue and feel that it’s related in some way to phosphate levels. I have decided not to have my faithful grammar pro “fix” it, as it's more of a raw outpouring than any sort...

battlecorals.com

Read some of this guys posts

!!!!PHOSPHATE THAT IS EVIL:FEAR THAT IS REAL!!!?

Working on finishing up a write up on this very topic long overdue. I believe that the quality and purity of RO/DI is one of the most, if not the most overlooked essential elements to long term success. People chase numbers till there's no tomorrow scratching their heads when somethings not...

www.reef2reef.com

The OP of that thread knows a little something about growing corals as well

 

[DrZoidburg]

In reality it could be anything. Would want to exhaust every option to figure it out. (agreed stability, don't chase numbers like crazy)

 

[New&no clue]

From reading all the suggestions, I think I will try the following steps.

1. Send out an ICP test- I have an ATI one that I got to test this tank at the six-month mark to see how it was doing, but I can send it now.
2. Cut back the amount of carbon. While it may or may not be the cause, it is still probably too much.
3. Test water each night for a week to check stability.
4. If the ICP test and parameters are stable, try again when the tank matures more in a couple of months.

I wish I had live rock. I went back and forth on it, but I decided to go with dry rock in the end. I had hoped that the two-year-old rock from my last system would be beneficial, and honestly, the availability of live rock at the time was scarce. I added in a bunch of stuff from IPSF to get some diversity going in the tank.