Why do you think new fish die in their first year?

[BanjoBandito]

...This thread is going really well.

 

[Little c big D]

...This thread is going really well.

I fear I got a little nippy and contributed to that. I apologize to OP for helping derail things.

 

[Idech]

I believe stress is the number one killer. According to some LFS, 75% of fish brought in from the ocean die before they reach the customer.

The other 25% end up in our tanks and have to face captivity and living in closed quarters with other stressed and aggressive fish. High, chronic stress lowers the immune system and those fish will often succumb to any parasite or disease that they would have otherwise been able to fight off if they had been in their natural habitat.

(I suppose stress also plays a big role with captive bred fish).

 

[brandon429]

very tame for a loss analysis thread. they usually descend, fast.

 

[ying yang]

One characteristic of the disease forum that really stands out to me, perhaps most of all, is each time someone posts for help Jay doesn't respond with a link of his tank.


they get info relative to their tank

in contrast, what does every single non quarantine debate thread show? advocates post solely pics of their own tank, for all arguments, for all angles, 100% of the time. that's a telling difference. inbound vs outbound locus of control.

Jay you're so thorough about helping others relative to their actual issues I don't even know a thing about your own home reef. I'd assume its dang nice, and not teeming with disease.

Well this is understandable and correct thing to do as if I asked jay for help as think my fish have ich then him showing a fts of his tank wouldn't help me in the slightest lol
As jay helps many with their fish and I would of thought he very much appreciated by everyone here on r2r.
But not everyone here is a staff member or works in an large aquarium and has many other knowledgeable people working along side him including vets and trained biologists so majority can only help others by their own experience they had on their own tanks and say how they do things and why they do it and why they think it works for them.if it's repeatable or not idk but that's upto the owner of the fish to make a decision.
I know that's what I do ,like recently I found out got some little black bugs what seem like they eating polyps on my green slimer sps but can't see no damage as of yet so started a thread and a few posters advised me on using a Dr g product or interceptor with a intank procudure ( they either get this information from doing it themselves or reading other people's threads on the matter ) either way I'm appreciate of their advice and recomendations and I will then decide if I want to do a full intank medication with interceptor or that Dr g's product as that's what we do is ....
See problem.
Ask for help or find a solution.
Then research the procudure and if any potential problems with doing it.
Look for reviews from others who have done it before me.
Then make a decision if want to do it or not.

 

[Frithton]

In 17 years I've had 13 fish. My clowns are 17 yrs old and still kicking. 2 PJ Cardinals went 12 and 15 years. A 6 line for 10 years. I had 4 fish that did not make it a year mostly due to beginners ignorance (stupidity). Two I should have never purchased for the size and maturity of the tank and two which the 6 line bullied to death (basically starvation) when I added them afterwards. So I included other because I do think many deaths are from ignorance on husbandry and disease management and can be avoided.

 

[brandon429]

How about junk food feeding vs the level of effort Paul puts into fish food prep, surely that factors strong

Pauls posts about commuted immunity from live and fresh food bacterial complement stands out among healthy long-lived fish owners

 

[ying yang]

very tame for a loss analysis thread. they usually descend, fast.

Well hopefully it stays " tame" and doesnt descend fast as that attitude gets nowhere,plus also rallying others up to get a reaction then few pages later say " hey everyone let's calm down now and get back to matter at hand "

As most of us are adults and talking / discussing is good and alot of the times helpfull.
Anyway need food then going pick a new dog up ^_^

 

[Jacob12]

Sometimes it’s the fish store trying to make a quick buck off you, and you make a impulse purchase not knowing the care needed for that fish.

 

[ying yang]

One caveat - over the past ten years, things were changing for he better in regards to fish from this region. Covid caused some lost ground, but there are some better quality fish coming from the region now….but you need to know how to find them.
Jay

Well this sounds good if fish quality improving,shame about covid slowing it down or putting on hold or whatever it has done.
Yeah you with working in a large aquarium and ordering im guessing large amount of fish will have huge experience on what time of year where to get and who to get from,so this is good knowledge if you can pass it on ( I don't mean now in this thread ) but just in general which you already do. As our own experiences help us and others around us either directly or I directly in anything in life

 

[ying yang]

How about junk food feeding vs the level of effort Paul puts into fish food prep, surely that factors strong

Pauls posts about commuted immunity from live and fresh food bacterial complement stands out among healthy long-lived fish owners

Yeah I think this is a very important of fish keeping whether qt or not qt and feed the fish best we can just like we should be eating best we can eat.
I know from mainly Paul's threads I don't hardly feed pellets/flakes or dry food,if that's contributed to why I've no sick fish ( yet) I'm sure it's helping along with alot if other stuff I've read/ researched/been told and implemented

 

[ying yang]

Ying yang

people who don't practice quarantine often have a standard to uphold when they recommend best practices to others. A few will step outside that personal practice and recommend what works best for the masses: but usually people just relay to others what they themselves use.

anyone here who manages other's reef tanks after cycling knows the disease loss rate, and its massive. People who do not do any degree of tracking of other's tanks after cycling and base all advice on their own sourcing and procedure are likely to not agree, but we can see actual reality forming on any day by just reading the new rates of posts in the disease forum, its amazingly busy.



You have been part of several disease threads since the date of that post, you are seeing live time the rate of disease expression in the hobby. its been pretty good learning I can assume

Your right I try get involved as much as I can including fish diesese threads ( even though never medicated any saltwater fish) but yes been alot of learning from others who had sick fish and what they looked like and the such and recommended way out of their problems.
I get involved in threads like them incase I have any problems in future but also because member of r2r and I joined to help myself/ get help if needed/ and to help others if I could ^_^

 

[Jay Hemdal]

One characteristic of the disease forum that really stands out to me, perhaps most of all, is each time someone posts for help Jay doesn't respond with a link of his tank.


they get info relative to their tank

in contrast, what does every single non quarantine debate thread show? advocates post solely pics of their own tank, for all arguments, for all angles, 100% of the time. that's a telling difference. inbound vs outbound locus of control.

Jay you're so thorough about helping others relative to their actual issues I don't even know a thing about your own home reef. I'd assume its dang nice, and not teeming with disease.

Nope - I have one 16 gallon AIO at home. I worked with fish professionally for 45+ years, just retired in October.
Jay

 

[brandon429]

a fellow nano reefer that is really neat. I was envisioning a saxby wall to wall requires scuba diving to clean the interstices

that was me projecting

 

[WVNed]

inexperienced and unknowledgeable, first-time fish buyers are the biggest reason for early and preventable fish death.

(due to, examples; overstocking, adding fish without cycling, not QT'ing, poor acclimation, poor filtration, poor fish choice for size tank, poor food choice......etc, etc)

This, beyond a shadow of a doubt for me. If the reasons were the fish it would happen to everyone. But it doesn't.

And I assure you if you take you eye off the ball your fish can die at anytime. You create the environment they live in and if you fail to do so they will sicken and die. Yes a disease will have killed them but the stress from the environment going south caused them to catch it.

I have been through both sides. The good times and the periods of forced overtime or new babies that made me slip.
Once you know how you still have to have enough time to do it and sometimes you just wont.

 

[threebuoys]

I'm not against QT. I just don't. And I stocked accordingly to fish that have the best success rate without qt. And I'm at 6months since the first fish. Only death was a jumper. I've since gotten a lid made.

I think diet is a bigger initial problem thn disease. Healthy fish will have positive immune response to alot of disease. The ones that are most lethal will likley hit much quicker. I think live, or quality frozen like LRS is the way to go. I've never dropped a dry food in my tank. They get lrs daily as well as there's a massive pod population.

That's not advocating against the QT process however, especially adding to an established tank.

Although I have QT as one of the choices, and I am a firm believer in QT, my goal with this thread was to get a sense of what we all experience and perhaps to give novices some info to think about as they enter the hobby. I've followed many of the QT / Don't QT threads and I think they have probably touched every possible angle on both sides of that topic.

Reality is likely that we do not really know the real reason for many of the deaths but can only form assumptions based on our observations since most of us don't have the ability to perform necropsies.

 

[Little c big D]

Although I have QT as one of the choices, and I am a firm believer in QT, my goal with this thread was to get a sense of what we all experience and perhaps to give novices some info to think about as they enter the hobby. I've followed many of the QT / Don't QT threads and I think they have probably touched every possible angle on both sides of that topic.

Reality is likely that we do not really know the real reason for many of the deaths but can only form assumptions based on our observations since most of us don't have the ability to perform necropsies.

Agreed, and if I read Jay's post correctly even he didn't often have an exact cause of death.

That's why I leaned toward nutrition. But I learned a good bit about harvesting today that adds light to other causes

 

[Aqua Man]

The few fish that I’ve lost were from jumping. I figured out it was our new cat that would jump at the glass and scare them! Took me awhile to figure it out. Never had fish jump out before

I moved the tank and have not had a fish jump since.

 

[NoahLikesFish]

i will never have any sick fish with my current tank cause i am not getting any more

(im not getting any more for this tank. therefore there will not be any disease transmission.) i am not quitting the hobby, i just dont want any more

 

[ZoWhat]

Why do you think new fish die in their first year?