Why so many Neptune Tridents for Sale?

[aggrofish]

Not defensive. Also not crazy. Reagents are not a money maker nor is that their intent. We are talking about automated testing which is not a printer (Neptune != HPI). People are looking at it the wrong way simply put.

Do you say the same about the Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro Kit? It tests Ca, Alk, and Mg, and an estimated 75 tests per kit. Runs 50 bucks. I just replaced my reagents and have 121 left (see below). 6 month kit is a tick under 100 US dollars. I get more tests out of the Trident at a cheaper cost. We can do the same for Hanna or any other kit that is somewhat accurate (I'm ignoring API).

We do not know why they set the number of tests the way they did. There is a reason and it is not to make hobbyist buy more reagents. That is just silly. If I had to guess the reason is related to how a reef consumes alk, ca, and mg and its relationship to assisted dosing.

As I noted all forms of automated testing will require a form of reagents, calibration fluid, probe replacement, disc replacement, etc. It is a necessity. Therefore not a money grab. No different than gas or electricity to make your car go. Or physical energy to turn a pedal on a bike.

A money grab is charging for a web portal such as Fusion. There is a local portal already so therefore Fusion is not necessary. Yet they provide it without a subscription.

Edit: trident number of tests left as a reference:

What is your position at Apex?

 

[cperry7467]

Here's my experience... I've had mine since May 2019 which was one of the first batches to come out of BRS. I've had it die twice since. The first time in July 2019 where the light used to test the sample went out. Neptune covered it under warranty, the only downside is I was without a trident for a couple weeks. The 2nd time which happened this week was the same issue. Technically I'm out of the 1 year warranty but Neptune offered to cross ship with me to help me out.

While mine has had it's issues it has been a lifesaver and my tank has never been more stable or dialed in. I've been on vacation to see my alk drop because of a dosing pump issue and all kinds of things.

On the flip side, I do wish for automated nitrate and phosphate testing so I have considered reefbot. But ultimately I've been loyal to Neptune because I feel like they are fair. Salt and water can be hard on electronics and after seeing some issues with the trident I get why the price is what it is. If you want a 2-3 year warranty the cost would probably be more like $900. I'm betting they release a trident 2.0 in the near future that does nitrate and phosphate and solves some of the original issues like further separating the electronic boards from the water/reagent lines.... And guess what I'll be happy to buy it.

 

[ADAM]

The issue I see with most folks who end up not liking the Trident is the learning curve associated. Sample pick up line placement in your tank, reagent pick up tube alignment, and knowing when reagents get low your levels drift in particular ways that are evident and and an easy sign of when to replace them. Have always been able to find reagents without much effort, if you did you may want to look further than the big 3-4 retailers.

Ive had mine since the first batch release and will want it in my coffin when Im buried! My system has never been more stable and healthy because of it.

Now you can also take into account that I've dealt with my fair share of issues with the Trident and felt like a lab rat for neptune times, but I can tell you that I would have never thought a company would be so thorough on getting the situation corrected on an out of warranty item and even followed up weeks later after the ticket was closed. They shipped me new Trident at one point to run side by side with the old one for diagnostics which they ended up telling me to keep the new one and send the old one back for helping after resolving the issue. I can also attest to the continued research and development of the current model.

As for the "V2" or model for NO3 and PO4... Ill be first in line to buy the machine and reagents when available, however Ive gotten to a point where I can pretty much tell you my PO4 level by my ALK uptake! If my ALK uptake rises over a day or two I can promise you my PO4 has decreased.


***P.S. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE STOP SAYING "I COULDNT TRUST IT TO DOSE MY TANK, IF THE TESTS GET REALLY SKEWED ITLL DUMP or STARVE CA/ALK(WHTEVR) AND KILL MY TANK"... IF THE TEST GET REALLY SKEWED "TBD" WILL REVERT TO THE MINIMUM DAILY DOSE YOU SET...ITS NOT GONNA EMPTY YOUR 2PART CONTAINER. PLUS YOU CAN SET THE ALERTS FOR WHATEVER PARAMETERS YOU WANT AND BE ABLE TO SEE EXACTLY WHEN THE TESTS IS REALLY SKEWED BEFORE THE DOS HAD MUCH TIME TO DO ANY DAMAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE.... sorry but that needed to be said!

 

[Bepis]

I just wanted to add to y’all that if the whole problem that you have with the triden is how many times a day it tests and yada yada... then get the GHL ion director. There is no reagent required maintancnce is easier, much higher quality, and it works with the GHL doser which is in its own catagory of dosers (so much more reliable)

 

[2Wheelsonly]

I’d sell mine but it’s so inaccurate and moody that I’d feel guilty. The alk test is solid, not so much for others. I think you would have to be an absolute moron to set your dosing schedule off one. People that do dumb stuff like that are not going to last long in this hobby.

I’ll give credit to Neptune when it comes to making products that nobody else makes but based on my experiences with them I would never ever trust them to be the lifeline of my tank. It’s there for simple convenience and information. I learned the hard way with their controllers....

Also, to the dude above saying to stop slamming it as a doser...it’s not the sudden increase I worry about that would cause my doser to dump an entire container it’s the slow creep of params over time that would I wouldn’t trust...I find I just would never trust the results, constantly tweaking and constantly cross checking with other test kits make it only good as a tool to quickly glance at my params. I only look at my alk, don’t bother the rest. Anything under a 1.0-1.5 change and I don’t bother with it.

 

[User1]

What is your position at Apex?

The local custom builder off Fair Oaks Blvd in California? I do not work there.

 

[User1]

I just wanted to add to y’all that if the whole problem that you have with the triden is how many times a day it tests and yada yada... then get the GHL ion director. There is no reagent required maintancnce is easier, much higher quality, and it works with the GHL doser which is in its own catagory of dosers (so much more reliable)

I do believe the ION will be a good choice for many. Especially if they are established in the GHL ecosystem.

To nit pick, just a little:

There is a reference fluid required
Probe/sensor replacement

Nothing is free in automated testing. There will be a sensor or probe replacement just as you will replace the reference fluid. Frequency of replacement is still unknown as the ION isn't out to the public. But I do believe it will be a solid choice to those who go that route.

 

[User1]

I’d sell mine but it’s so inaccurate and moody that I’d feel guilty. The alk test is solid, not so much for others. I think you would have to be an absolute moron to set your dosing schedule off one. People that do dumb stuff like that are not going to last long in this hobby.

Do you realize how many people you just called a moron on this forum? Been in the hobby since 1999.

Also, to the dude above saying to stop slamming it as a doser...it’s not the sudden increase I worry about that would cause my doser to dump an entire container it’s the slow creep of params over time that would I wouldn’t trust...I find I just would never trust the results, constantly tweaking and constantly cross checking with other test kits make it only good as a tool to quickly glance at my params. I only look at my alk, don’t bother the rest. Anything under a 1.0-1.5 change and I don’t bother with it.

Trident controlled dosing comes up from time to time and usually with a bit of a misunderstanding, or ignorance, of how it works. Your opening line above by calling everyone a moron who uses it is just one example. The Trident in of itself isn't going to dump anything above or outside a set range of influence. It has a built in safety net - a control range - for the desired parameter. Plain and simple. It tightens the values but will not exceed and revert back.

At the end of the day this is how I see it. If you want automated testing it is best to start with your existing controller choice and ecosystem. It makes dollars and cents (sense) because you are already invested and it will be a cheaper entry point. GHL and Neptune will both be solid choices and used different technology to get there. If you don't have a controller but are interested in automated testing then make a list of pro and cons to see which one checks off the most boxes. Include to the best of your ability reagent, reference fluid, and other replacements because if you travel like me someone may have to do that task for you if you are out.

At the end of the day none of these are a necessary piece of equipment. It is a convenience.

 

[Biff0rz]

Here's my take, and why I went a different direction - you don't really need to test Cal and mag all that frequently but the trident requires those reagents to run ANY test. The real value is the alk testing, which, is not very flexible. It has specific times at which its tests and that's it. The Apex also has a maintenance period in which you have to send it back to neptune for calibration.... Uhm... Nothx.

I went with an alkatronic - why? More flexibility over frequency of alk tests, cheap as heck self-made reagent, and, I can recalibrate it myself without sending it back to the mfg. I can then test Cal and mag at my leisure with a trusted test.

 

[JohnnyBeagle]

My Trident seems accurate compared to manual testing and Trident controlled dosing keeps the tank much more stable than I could otherwise.

I still manually test once a week because I test my non-Apex controlled 20g tank so why not the main tank too. Apex makes some janky hardware and if someone came out with high quality equipment I might switch but for now I have no interest in getting rid of the Trident.

 

[cperry7467]

***P.S. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE STOP SAYING "I COULDNT TRUST IT TO DOSE MY TANK, IF THE TESTS GET REALLY SKEWED ITLL DUMP or STARVE CA/ALK(WHTEVR) AND KILL MY TANK"... IF THE TEST GET REALLY SKEWED "TBD" WILL REVERT TO THE MINIMUM DAILY DOSE YOU SET...ITS NOT GONNA EMPTY YOUR 2PART CONTAINER. PLUS YOU CAN SET THE ALERTS FOR WHATEVER PARAMETERS YOU WANT AND BE ABLE TO SEE EXACTLY WHEN THE TESTS IS REALLY SKEWED BEFORE THE DOS HAD MUCH TIME TO DO ANY DAMAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE.... sorry but that needed to be said!

Well said. It has safeguards to prevent anything like that. I was hesitant at first to setup mine up to auto dose but once I went through the setup process I realized how they prevent those things. Auto dosing with trident and a DOS has been great for me.

 

[ScottB]

Here are my wants on a Trident V2
RODI Reservoir - once test is complete, rinses the vial out
Ability to remove vial for deep cleaning without having to take the whole unit apart.
NO3/PO4 testing
Allow me to run test at my schedule
Cost of reagents go down.

+1 for these features. Heck, if it could do all that I would not mind paying even more tbh.

 

[aggrofish]

I have a small 45 gallon mixed reef now. Nothing too mature but the 30 frags or so are growing and I do have to dose. I'm setting up a red sea 350 and was seriously looking into the Trident to take the hassle out of testing and to set it up to dose / maintain parameters.

I'm reading that the reagents dont last as long as the claims on the lowest setting of 4/2/2 because it tests after dosing?

How long does a 6 month reagent actually last? Big shoutout to the guy that provided the code to change the number of tests.

 

[ca1ore]

A few thoughts ....

1. Are there REALLY that many tridents for sale. Given how popular they were/are it’s inevitable that some percentage will end up being offered for sale. My way of saying that I don’t agree with the initial premise.
2. Reagents cost me around $17 per month .... saving $9 per month doesn’t seem like a very smart justification for trying to ‘hack’ apex. I spend more than $17 on bottled water.
3. Cost of the trident is a significant win for me if it means I can avoid manual testing ..... which I hate doing.

 

[User1]

I'm reading that the reagents dont last as long as the claims on the lowest setting of 4/2/2 because it tests after dosing?

It does not run tests after dosing. Dosing schedules are set.

How long does a 6 month reagent actually last? Big shoutout to the guy that provided the code to change the number of tests.

How long the reagent(s) actually last depends on the water parameters of the hobbyist tank(s). Not trying to be vague or not answer but it really depends. Reagent use will vary say if my alk is at 8 and yours is at 9 more reagent may be used to run through the titration / test.

I'm somewhat close I think to making it on 2 months but usually have left over. I run my tank around 8.1 - 8.3 alk, 400 - 440 ca, and 1350 mg.

 

[ca1ore]

People that do dumb stuff like that are not going to last long in this hobby.

Yeah, you’re probably right. I do trident controlled dosing ..... but I’ve only been in the hobby for 32 years. Maybe it’s the 33rd year when things come a crashing down.

 

[ADAM]

I have a small 45 gallon mixed reef now. Nothing too mature but the 30 frags or so are growing and I do have to dose. I'm setting up a red sea 350 and was seriously looking into the Trident to take the hassle out of testing and to set it up to dose / maintain parameters.

I'm reading that the reagents dont last as long as the claims on the lowest setting of 4/2/2 because it tests after dosing?

How long does a 6 month reagent actually last? Big shoutout to the guy that provided the code to change the number of tests.

Most complaint threads I’ve seen on reagent life is 5-6 weeks under “normal conditions” (non-malfunction) From what I recall the 2 month time designation was based on natural seawater levels

If you want more life you can alter the tests programming as mentioned before, or keep you parameters, ALK, Ca, Mag, at lower levels.

Ex: If 7dkh requires 20 drops of reagent per test and 10dkh requires 30 drops per test than you will consume reagent much faster the higher you maintain your parameters.


Also: I wonder how many of the tridents for sale are from setups that someone bought out and are selling off pieces they don’t need and tridents are usually quick sales to recoup some of the investment? If I were buying out an equipment package to get some really nice lighting at a fraction of the cost and planned to resell most of the other pumps, wavemakers, controller parts, etc; the Trident would be the first thing I cleaned up and listed for sale.

 

[ca1ore]

I'm reading that the reagents dont last as long as the claims on the lowest setting of 4/2/2 because it tests after dosing?

Each reagent set lasts me about 8 weeks. Plus or minus a few days. Some six month periods are longer than others LOL.

 

[User1]

Yeah, you’re probably right. I do trident controlled dosing ..... but I’ve only been in the hobby for 32 years. Maybe it’s the 33rd year when things come a crashing down.

This made me laugh out loud and made my morning. You have a way with words.

 

[ADAM]

If someone’s trident is “consistently inaccurate” I would be blaming installer, not the machine..... see it everyday in the mechanical/electrical installation field.