Why so many Neptune Tridents for Sale?

[ingchr1]

Lighting, consumption, top off, feeding, lots of things will change alk through the day. If you're wondering if it drifts you'd need to compare it against a trusted test.

What I'm wondering is if through out the day is Alkalinity consumption fairly predicable on a day to day basis, for a given tank.

Part of what's being sold is that it's unpredictable and hence the need for automatic testing, testing multiple times a day and frequent adjustment based on that testing.

There are many automatic testers out there, including the KH Director and Alkatronic, which would give many data points on Alkalinity behavior (in general).

That data could be insightful to see just how beneficial these devices are, or to what types of tanks they may be beneficial for.

For example, the cost and benifit is not there for my tank. I have ten or so corals and my tank uses ~0.3 dKH per day. I test once a week and adjust my dosing based on that. Dosing may change a couple of ml, either up or down. I will test more than once a week if a need arises.

Do a majority of tanks fall into the category of mine, where testing up to a few times a week is adequate? Or do they fall into the category of needing testing multiple times a day with automated adjustment of dosing on the fly?

At what point do you reach deminishing returns on stability? Is it 0.1, 0.5 or 1.0 swings in dKH?

Like other items, how great is the actual need/benefit compared to the marketing/hype/influencers?

How beneficial is removing every bit of detritus immediately from a tank via a roller mat? Some run very successful tanks without any mechanical filtration.

Did people think that cords were really that ugly in a tank before a certain manufacturer came out with a powerhead without? Compared to my powerheads themselves, I barely notice the cords. What I have costs less and will probably out live those pumps.

This is all in reference to actual need/benift. Compared to the fun of just owning gadgets, which is a part of the hobby.

 

[Biff0rz]

What I'm wondering is if through out the day is Alkalinity consumption fairly predicable on a day to day basis, for a given tank.

Part of what's being sold is that it's unpredictable and hence the need for automatic testing, testing multiple times a day and frequent adjustment based on that testing.

There are many automatic testers out there, including the KH Director and Alkatronic, which would give many data points on Alkalinity behavior (in general).

That data could be insightful to see just how beneficial these devices are, or to what types of tanks they may be beneficial for.

For example, the cost and benifit is not there for my tank. I have ten or so corals and my tank uses ~0.3 dKH per day. I test once a week and adjust my dosing based on that. Dosing may change a couple of ml, either up or down. I will test more than once a week if a need arises.

Do a majority of tanks fall into the category of mine, where testing up to a few times a week is adequate? Or do they fall into the category of needing testing multiple times a day with automated adjustment of dosing on the fly?

At what point do you reach deminishing returns on stability? Is it 0.1, 0.5 or 1.0 swings in dKH?

Like other items, how great is the actual need/benefit compared to the marketing/hype/influencers?

How beneficial is removing every bit of detritus immediately from a tank via a roller mat? Some run very successful tanks without any mechanical filtration.

Did people think that cords were really that ugly in a tank before a certain manufacturer came out with a powerhead without? Compared to my powerheads themselves, I barely notice the cords. What I have costs less and will probably out live those pumps.

This is all in reference to actual need/benift. Compared to the fun of just owning gadgets, which is a part of the hobby.

Is it predictable...sort of. If the same thing happens every single day and the only constant change is coral growth, then alk is probably somewhat predictable within reason. But that's just not even close to reality.

Here's my poor example of alk w the alkatronic. I have no corals in my tank, thus my consumption is extremely low and I can control my alk easily with just some tweaks of the CaRx c02. This is my last 30 days.

Now some data points:
1) new reagent
2) turned co2 on
3) turned c02 off
4) turned co2 on with intent of bringing alk to ~9.0
5) tweaking c02 based on CaRx ph, no dosing (obv)

But let's look at the 7 day view

And zoom in on the last 2-3 days

When you break this down into a day view, even though I'm not consuming alk at any sort of rate, it still swings. This is because of lights, feeding, top off (switching between rodi and salt top off), water changes (awc). And those are variables that can affect it before even getting into growing corals.

Like you're sort of eluding to, it all comes down to a tank's need (or even the preference of the user). I'd say the frequency of trident tests is good for lps/mixed reefs, but that doesn't mean a super stable SPS tank cannot be achieved. GHL and Alkatronic are probably best suited for SPS dominated because alk swings can really mess with sticks. You're also asking about the fidelity of the test and how far of a swing is acceptable for tanks - most SPS reefers with an alkatronic test every 2-4 hours and try to dial in alk between a +/- 0.3 range. The GHL and Alkatronic test more frequently thus they can also dose more frequently, and those doses can be dynamic in size. So higher frequency testing and higher frequency dynamic dosing all lead to ... stability.

There are quite a few users in the alkatronic owners group on facebook that have gone from trident to the alkatronic that are focused on sps reefs...they all say they won't go back to the trident. They say the alkatronic makes it a lot easier for sps.

 

[ca1ore]

Might be more like 32.5

I doubt that .... but we shall see.

 

[Matt1997]

I have found with the trident I can expect about 0.5 change in dKH throughout the day at 4 tests a day. At 6 tests a day I notice about a 0.2-0.3 change. At 8 tests I notice <0.2. After I switch out bottles and calibrate, I tend to run 8 tests a day then reduce to 4 tests to dial in the parameters. If I go away on vacation I bump
It up to 6 tests a day. I love my trident. Adding a second one to my other display here soon.

I will post pictures of a dkH drop over the coarse of a day. In order to not crash my tank, I’ll run 12 tests per day and dose under what my daily intake would normally be. I predict you will see about a 0.5-1dkh drop in Alk.

 

[Greg P]

Without reading through 8 pages of posts ...
To me it just seems ridiculous to have readings 4-6-8 times/day. Weekly testing is just fine for me and adjusting my dosers accordingly is not a hassle.
I can see too much tinkering with the Trident causing newbies to have tank issues, and it's awfully spendy.
My 2 cents are you either spend the $17US/month (200+/yr) or you spend $45/yr on manual kits if you even need to test weekly

 

[ingchr1]

Is it predictable...sort of. If the same thing happens every single day and the only constant change is coral growth, then alk is probably somewhat predictable within reason. But that's just not even close to reality.

Here's my poor example of alk w the alkatronic. I have no corals in my tank, thus my consumption is extremely low and I can control my alk easily with just some tweaks of the CaRx c02. This is my last 30 days.

Now some data points:
1) new reagent
2) turned co2 on
3) turned c02 off
4) turned co2 on with intent of bringing alk to ~9.0
5) tweaking c02 based on CaRx ph, no dosing (obv)

But let's look at the 7 day view

And zoom in on the last 2-3 days

When you break this down into a day view, even though I'm not consuming alk at any sort of rate, it still swings. This is because of lights, feeding, top off (switching between rodi and salt top off), water changes (awc). And those are variables that can affect it before even getting into growing corals.

Like you're sort of eluding to, it all comes down to a tank's need (or even the preference of the user). I'd say the frequency of trident tests is good for lps/mixed reefs, but that doesn't mean a super stable SPS tank cannot be achieved. GHL and Alkatronic are probably best suited for SPS dominated because alk swings can really mess with sticks. You're also asking about the fidelity of the test and how far of a swing is acceptable for tanks - most SPS reefers with an alkatronic test every 2-4 hours and try to dial in alk between a +/- 0.3 range. The GHL and Alkatronic test more frequently thus they can also dose more frequently, and those doses can be dynamic in size. So higher frequency testing and higher frequency dynamic dosing all lead to ... stability.

There are quite a few users in the alkatronic owners group on facebook that have gone from trident to the alkatronic that are focused on sps reefs...they all say they won't go back to the trident. They say the alkatronic makes it a lot easier for sps.

Thank you for the information.

Between 3 and 4 (when no dosing was occurring?) looks like a steady trend down of ~0.3 - 0.4dKH over a 7 day period. Could the few very minor swings over that time period just be related to accuracy of the machine. Understanding that there are no corals for this example.

Stability, has it been quantified? We are told stability is required to be successful but when is a tank deemed stable enough for success? When does making it more stable not yield any noticeable improvement?

If a tank is having 0.5 dKH swings with manual testing and dose adjustment, will that tank show noticeable improvement by getting it down to 0.3 dKH swings with automatic testing and dose adjustment?

I checked to see how the manufacturers define stability on their websites.

 

[ingchr1]

...I will post pictures of a dkH drop over the coarse of a day. In order to not crash my tank, I’ll run 12 tests per day and dose under what my daily intake would normally be. I predict you will see about a 0.5-1dkh drop in Alk.

This would be great, thank you.

Would be good to see examples from other tanks as well.

 

[Doctorgori]

make testing frequency a actual thing and not a hack/work around
and provide proof that the supply chain will consistently provide regents and I’m in even at 600 bucks
...till then I’ll hang loose on it