Will BRS Now Charge Subscription for Neptune Apex Fusion?

[Hincapiej4]

Yep. The servers the apex and the app connect to are either rented by or owned by apex. They may be doing virtual servers and running on a cloud platform like AWS or Azure, or they could be physical servers hosted either in a datacenter or by Neptune themselves, I really don't know. There are monthly costs that they have to pay to keep that running though.

True, the amount of data each user adds is probably miniscule; up to a certain point, the biggest cost is just the baseline running the service. After the userbase hits a certain level, then electricity and bandwidth costs alone can become larger than the baseline itself. I don't know what the apex userbase is, but if it's sufficiently large such that the baseline cost is spread thin, a $10-20 a year sub would probably cover their costs. It wouldn't be a profit stream, but it would be a revenue stream that would cancel out the cost center.

mmmm you're speaking my language. I bet it's a VM they are hosting themselves or a standalone utility server running just for fusion services. It's probably just part of their own currently running onprem network.

 

[theishkid]

Cloudflare.com seems to be who they are hosting apexfusion.com through. Whether or not that means they host fusion data might be a different story.

 

[rhostam]

I’m not sure how this idea came to the OP, but I’ll pretend BRS announced something like this.

My answer would likely be to change ecosystems unless there was some other very clear benefit added to Fusion subscription. I mean I get it, it costs money to suck all of this data up.

I still don’t see this happening. What I do see is data use policies potentially changing. BRS could use anonymized Apex data to help inform market decisions and postures they make. How? Not sure. But since we’re just pulling stuff out of our bungholes, that’s my idea.

I’d be fine with that, too.

PS: I also hope they increase string sizes for device names.

 

[rhostam]

It will be fun to watch when all you gadget heads forget to renew your Apex subscription. I can see it now Randy/Ryan sitting behind their keyboard and with one click locking up all your tanks.

For the life of me I can not figure out why anyone would have their return pump rely on some silly little computer box, (made in China) with a million different failure points. You gadget boys might want to consider having a tried and trusted Iwaki hiding in the closet.

That second sentence would kill their reputation.

Have you seen and listened to Ryan and Randy throughout the years? They clearly have a love for this hobby and they have made it into a successful enterprise. Why on earth would they jeopardize that? I can appreciate being weary, but so cynical…

Trust, but verify. Their actions will speaker louder than any conjecture and supposition we might have.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

PS: I also hope they increase string sizes for device names.

Preach, no logical or software architectural reason to limit them like they did beyond maybe the visible control size in the UI but that's clearly not the case.

 

[GK3]

With BRS acquiring Neptune Systems, do you think they will start charging monthly/annual subscriptions to Neptune Apex Fusion for dashboard cloud access? Sure they will be looking for new revenue streams. If so, curios what the value proposition will be?

If they start charging a fee or put in advertising, I’ll gladly set $3K worth of apex gear ablaze and use something else. I’ll build my own, remove use of controller, go to another brand, but I won’t stick around with a fee and I won’t watch adds.

 

[mikeg18]

who makes a comparable complete system to apex?

looked into GHL but cannot match component to component.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

who makes a comparable complete system to apex?

looked into GHL but cannot match component to component.

The extensive list you mentioned is it

 

[RMS18]

I'd leave Apex for sure if the start charging.

 

[Utubereefer]

Definitely not buying OPs controller with that way of thinking

 

[kenchilada]

who makes a comparable complete system to apex?

looked into GHL but cannot match component to component.

GHL is it sadly. The hardware is excellent, but the software platform and user experience is terrible. The GHL community tends to be defensive and buries their head in the sand when it comes to GHLs shortcomings, which isn’t helping.

If I was GHL I would at least release a REST API for their system that lets the community develop a new UX. It would be quite an easy app to build.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

GHL is it sadly. The hardware is excellent, but the software platform and user experience is terrible. The GHL community tends to be defensive and buries their head in the sand when it comes to GHLs shortcomings, which isn’t helping.

If I was GHL I would at least release a REST API for their system that lets the community develop a new UX. It would be quite an easy app to build.

Haha not even Neptune is releasing an API,I wouldn't expect GHL to invest in a wrapper that 5% of it's user base will be interested in or even have the knowledge to take advantage of. Not unless there's an internal advantage to managing their own system in doing so.

 

[ingchr1]

I would hope and think that all controller manufacturers have their services running on the cloud/physical server in a datacenter, vice their own. Seams like way too much risk to be otherwise.

Charging for these services would be a decision based on revenue. There is a set user base for these products. You have to sell them products to continue to make money. What any of the controller manufactures would do if they needed an additional revenue source to meet targets is anyone's guess.

I have GHL, but I have no need for another product from them until something happens to my current controller. Which should be several years from now. So from me they have no current or near term revenue source. A cloud service fee under $30/year wouldn't bother me.

On my main tank I run a Profilux 4 that I actually bought NIB off the for sale section of this forum, about three years ago. The owner had bought it in early 2017.

 

[kenchilada]

Haha not even Neptune is releasing an API,I wouldn't expect GHL to invest in a wrapper that 5% of it's user base will be interested in or even have the knowledge to take advantage of. Not unless there's an internal advantage to managing their own system in doing so.

Sorry but that's silly. There's an army of people here the can produce a better frontend UX than what GHL provides. Put it on GitHub. GHL literally has nothing to lose, and it might make people want to purchase GHL hardware. Apex is beating GHL mainly because Apex is pleasant to use and GHL makes me want to pull my fingernails off.

Ever seen fishPi? Frontends like this are easy to create. I would start with VueJS and a component library. This is a project I would give to an intern at my company!

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Sorry but that's silly. There's an army of people here the can produce a better frontend UX than what GHL provides. Put it on GitHub. GHL literally has nothing to lose, and it might make people want to purchase GHL hardware. Apex is beating GHL mainly because Apex is pleasant to use and GHL makes me want to pull my fingernails off.

Ever seen fishPi? Frontends like this are easy to create. I would start with VueJS and a component library. This is a project I would give to an intern at my company!

I simply disagree that there's an army of people. That's not the majority demographic of people in reefing. Not a knock on anyone or their skills or aptitude. It's simply a statistic that's highly probable. A vast majority of end users will not develop their own interface even using open platforms like grafina, power bi or pick your preferred method. It's just not there, that's not the market at all. If they launch it they'll have to support it, that costs ongoing money above and beyond initial development. These companies are not going to be so cavalier as you put it, by throwing an intern at a project like that. We'll agree to disagree on this point. I'd love an end point to tap into myself but I'm realistic about it's likelihood to manifest itself in the only two existing platforms that currently dominate the landscape in the next 5 years (honestly I hope I'm wrong).

 

[Silvas]

I simply disagree that there's an army of people. That's not the majority demographic of people in reefing. Not a knock on anyone or their skills or aptitude. It's simply a statistic that's highly probable. A vast majority of end users will not develop their own interface even using open platforms like grafina, power bi or pick your preferred method. It's just not there, that's not the market at all. If they launch it they'll have to support it, that costs ongoing money above and beyond initial development. These companies are not going to be so cavalier as you put it, by throwing an intern at a project like that. We'll agree to disagree on this point. I'd love an end point to tap into myself but I'm realistic about it's likelihood to manifest itself in the only two existing platforms that currently dominate the landscape in the next 5 years (honestly I hope I'm wrong).

I'll agree that it's unlikely that they will publish an API, whether just for UX or for the whole shebang.
I'd also agree that the number of people who would go develop their own interface is definitely in the minority.
That said, there would be a number of people who would develop a new interface and then post it, essentially as a plugin, for all to use - and that's where the real usage would be. Plenty of people who lack the coding and development skills, or design skills, would download and use alternate interfaces if they were good.
As far as needing to support it, I disagree. Plenty of companies have opened up APIs into their products and allowed 3rd parties to access the product via the API, or even modify the product or the interface, on an as-is basis. We publish the API documentation, all the calls, etc. and we don't lock the device or product down so that it will only communicate with our equipment and our app; we allow external communication to it, and the rest is up to you. You're having trouble getting your mod or plugin to work? Go find community support, or go start a community support group.
We'll keep the API documentation updated if any changes to the API are made, and that's it. If you're using any mods or plugins, we'll insist you disable them and power cycle the device before we'll help you do any troubleshooting.

There's no reason a company like GHL would have to incur ongoing support and the associated costs to publish an API and allow 3rd party modification of the interface.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I'll agree that it's unlikely that they will publish an API, whether just for UX or for the whole shebang.
I'd also agree that the number of people who would go develop their own interface is definitely in the minority.
That said, there would be a number of people who would develop a new interface and then post it, essentially as a plugin, for all to use - and that's where the real usage would be. Plenty of people who lack the coding and development skills, or design skills, would download and use alternate interfaces if they were good.
As far as needing to support it, I disagree. Plenty of companies have opened up APIs into their products and allowed 3rd parties to access the product via the API, or even modify the product or the interface, on an as-is basis. We publish the API documentation, all the calls, etc. and we don't lock the device or product down so that it will only communicate with our equipment and our app; we allow external communication to it, and the rest is up to you. You're having trouble getting your mod or plugin to work? Go find community support, or go start a community support group.
We'll keep the API documentation updated if any changes to the API are made, and that's it. If you're using any mods or plugins, we'll insist you disable them and power cycle the device before we'll help you do any troubleshooting.

There's no reason a company like GHL would have to incur ongoing support and the associated costs to publish an API and allow 3rd party modification of the interface.

I can get behind what you're saying. The more I thought about it they wouldn't necessarily have to have a high overhead with ongoing support for the API.

 

[kenchilada]

I'll agree that it's unlikely that they will publish an API, whether just for UX or for the whole shebang.
I'd also agree that the number of people who would go develop their own interface is definitely in the minority.
That said, there would be a number of people who would develop a new interface and then post it, essentially as a plugin, for all to use - and that's where the real usage would be. Plenty of people who lack the coding and development skills, or design skills, would download and use alternate interfaces if they were good.
As far as needing to support it, I disagree. Plenty of companies have opened up APIs into their products and allowed 3rd parties to access the product via the API, or even modify the product or the interface, on an as-is basis. We publish the API documentation, all the calls, etc. and we don't lock the device or product down so that it will only communicate with our equipment and our app; we allow external communication to it, and the rest is up to you. You're having trouble getting your mod or plugin to work? Go find community support, or go start a community support group.
We'll keep the API documentation updated if any changes to the API are made, and that's it. If you're using any mods or plugins, we'll insist you disable them and power cycle the device before we'll help you do any troubleshooting.

There's no reason a company like GHL would have to incur ongoing support and the associated costs to publish an API and allow 3rd party modification of the interface.

Unfortunately I agree, highly unlikely they would publish an API. Say what you will about Neptune, I am no fan of their recent hardware, but Terrence is a sharp guy and Neptune is aggressive in marketing, product development, community engagement. GHL seems to just be punching their card and making the donuts.

 

[Silvas]

Unfortunately I agree, highly unlikely they would publish an API. Say what you will about Neptune, I am no fan of their recent hardware, but Terrence is a sharp guy and Neptune is aggressive in marketing, product development, community engagement. GHL seems to just be punching their card and making the donuts.

I feel that way about a lot (but not all) of the saltwater aquarium/reefing hobby equipment manufacturing companies. Even the ones who do innovate, it feels like any innovation they do is only in service to profit, instead of profit being only part of it.
Certainly I'm not saying companies shouldn't make a profit, or should only make a pittance of profit, but it feels like companies are only interested in offering high cost items and squeezing as much profit out of the community, and innovating or really advancing the hobby or giving customers what they actually want as little as possible. When there are significant unique features or advancements, often it seems its whatever someone at the mfg decided they wanted to make, with no regard to what hobbyists and customers want and are asking for.

$500+ lights that you need 2 or more of to cover anything bigger than a 2ft long tank, skimmers that run $500 or even $1000+, acrylic sumps at $400+ (this one is particularly egregious to me, because I know in bulk acrylic isn't expensive and you can bulk order all the pieces laser cut, or even have them bulk assembled in a factory somewhere for fairly cheap - but hobbyists can't go that route because 1 offs wouldn't be economical), wave pumps and return pumps (I'm going to mostly talk about DC here because I believe that's the future anyways, eventually it will be rare to find someone running AC return pumps and wave pumps IMO) that are sometimes several hundred dollars just for 1 pump.
A lot of these things don't really have much to differentiate themselves from others - maybe a unique pattern on a wave pump; maybe a slightly different shape to that injection molded skimmer body, or a different venturi, oh look here we put a dual pump in our skimmer! (no disrespect to maxspect, I think the aeraqua duo is a dang nice looking skimmer, and I'd love to have one but it's too rich for my blood)