Wilson the Scorpaena Brasiliensis

[AngiGiles]

Eventually food, Mr Wilson can eat something much larger than you think, and cardinals are sitting ducks. Any fish that is about half their size can be eaten, it could be immediately, or even in a year. I've watched my scorps and lions stalk out sleeping spots to ambush and eat fish way bigger than I thought possible. Here's a pic of one of my S. brasiliensis with the tail of molly sticking out of his mouth, that molly was about 2/3rds his size and meant for the rhino, that little rascal was a beast.

Greedy little buggers! Haha well ok then, good to know

 

[AngiGiles]

So Wilson is getting his antennata friend tomorrow!! It all happened so fast, I hope we are ready! Any suggestions for a smooth transition? I assume an acclimation box until we know he's eating good, but as long s they're sized similar.. good to go together? I figured I'd have the acclimation box in Wilson's tank so they could see each ther for a bit. Beyond that, I'm open for suggestions!

 

[lion king]

So Wilson is getting his antennata friend tomorrow!! It all happened so fast, I hope we are ready! Any suggestions for a smooth transition? I assume an acclimation box until we know he's eating good, but as long s they're sized similar.. good to go together? I figured I'd have the acclimation box in Wilson's tank so they could see each ther for a bit. Beyond that, I'm open for suggestions!

I wouldn't do an acclimation, it is actually so stressful for them to be confined like that, and exposed. He will be fine to be released into the tank, 29g right, and offer ghost shrimp right off the bat.

 

[lion king]

Some more points in case you didn't pick these up from some of my threads. Match the sg, going lower is fine but higher can be risky. Test the sg in the bag and adjust accordingly. Raising the sg slowly in the bag if necessary, as well as lowering the sg in the tank if necessary. For a fowlr it's not necessary to keep sg above 1.020. Keep lights out and immediately offer live food, most healthy lions immediately eat. Give it overnight with live food, if he doesn't eat let me know. I usually immediately treat with general cure if they do not eat live food after 24 hrs.

 

[AngiGiles]

Some more points in case you didn't pick these up from some of my threads. Match the sg, going lower is fine but higher can be risky. Test the sg in the bag and adjust accordingly. Raising the sg slowly in the bag if necessary, as well as lowering the sg in the tank if necessary. For a fowlr it's not necessary to keep sg above 1.020. Keep lights out and immediately offer live food, most healthy lions immediately eat. Give it overnight with live food, if he doesn't eat let me know. I usually immediately treat with general cure if they do not eat live food after 24 hrs.

Yes, in to the 29g. That tank actually doesn't have a light, just ambient light from the room cuz I read they all like dim and HHEEYY no algae haha as for the sg, I did know about matching, dripping if I have to go up. As for general cure, I have that on hand and never treated Wilson, would it be a good idea to just treat? Is there a different way to treat when it comes to saltwater? I was kind of reading a 7 day instead of the 48 like the instructions say, but it didn't make sense really haha as for live, we have plenty of mollys on hand, but only a handful of ghost shrimp, was hoping to let them breed a bit, being so hard to find rn. And you mention the sg of 020, I keep all 3 tanks at 025 and we mix in a barrel, is it bad if I keep it at 025? Are there benefits to lowering it?

 

[lion king]

Yes, in to the 29g. That tank actually doesn't have a light, just ambient light from the room cuz I read they all like dim and HHEEYY no algae haha as for the sg, I did know about matching, dripping if I have to go up. As for general cure, I have that on hand and never treated Wilson, would it be a good idea to just treat? Is there a different way to treat when it comes to saltwater? I was kind of reading a 7 day instead of the 48 like the instructions say, but it didn't make sense really haha as for live, we have plenty of mollys on hand, but only a handful of ghost shrimp, was hoping to let them breed a bit, being so hard to find rn. And you mention the sg of 020, I keep all 3 tanks at 025 and we mix in a barrel, is it bad if I keep it at 025? Are there benefits to lowering it?

Scorps are obviously fine at full reef 1.025, just not necessary. Most time the sg from suppliers will be at highest 1.020 and I've seen it as low as 1.017. It is very dangerous to go more than .002 higher in sg, so there needs to be an acclimation. Anything more than that as long as 2 hours. Personally I would lower the sg in the fowlr,bit will make it easier in the future.

Treatment with Wilson in the tank will be tricky, as some scorps can be sensitive. GC is best effective as a 2 dose regime, 48 hrs apart. I would wait and see before treating, and if necessary, split dosage in 2 parts just in case, Each dose 1/2 and then other half 8 hours later after observation.

 

[AngiGiles]

Scorps are obviously fine at full reef 1.025, just not necessary. Most time the sg from suppliers will be at highest 1.020 and I've seen it as low as 1.017. It is very dangerous to go more than .002 higher in sg, so there needs to be an acclimation. Anything more than that as long as 2 hours. Personally I would lower the sg in the fowlr,bit will make it easier in the future.

Treatment with Wilson in the tank will be tricky, as some scorps can be sensitive. GC is best effective as a 2 dose regime, 48 hrs apart. I would wait and see before treating, and if necessary, split dosage in 2 parts just in case, Each dose 1/2 and then other half 8 hours later after observation.

He came in at 024 and I added ro to make the tank 024. He seems a lot smaller than Wilson! He won't try to eat him right?? Or, won't be able to right? Wilson is just on the rock watching the new guy rn.

 

[lion king]

He came in at 024 and I added ro to make the tank 024. He seems a lot smaller than Wilson! He won't try to eat him right?? Or, won't be able to right? Wilson is just on the rock watching the new guy rn.

Perfect, no I don't think Wilson will try and eat him. The Antennata with his wings and spines appear alot bigger to potential predators.

 

[AngiGiles]

He ate today! Ok, full disclosure, we didn't try to feed him live til today, we tried different kinds of dead food, silverside, krill, pe mysis (he seems so small!) Anyway we were just kind of scared to let a clear tiny shrimp go.. like how would we know if its hiding or got eaten? How would I know it was the lion and not wilson... so many questions. Anyway, tonight I thought to myself *lionking said he had to eat in 24hrs, Angi, get the shrimp* so I grabbed a net and took a HOT MINUTE to find 1 of probably 10 shrimp in a planted 40 breeder, got one and ran to the tank (cuz they're creepy when they crawl, spider looking things lol) put the net in down near the lion and thought again, ok how do I get this shrimp out of the net, but not lost in the tank?! And this little turd spotted it and swam right in to the net to snatch it up!! Coolest thing I ever seen, and a wave of relief washed over me, HE ATE! So now we're on the hunt for more ghost shrimp.. I assume he has the same rules? Feed til full and then skip a day or 2? We've been feeding Wilson mon, wed, and friday. But when he refuses dead first we just skip that day and feed on the next scheduled day. We have been making him eat a dead food before he gets a molly. Has ended up being 1 molly a week so far.

 

[lion king]

Just like Wilson, fatten him for the first few days, then go to other day. Fish like this many times haven't eaten much, or at all, for a long time. So you want to get some good food in them to strengthen them back up. If the antennata is too small for mollies, you can offer him guppies.

 

[AngiGiles]

Just like Wilson, fatten him for the first few days, then go to other day. Fish like this many times haven't eaten much, or at all, for a long time. So you want to get some good food in them to strengthen them back up. If the antennata is too small for mollies, you can offer him guppies.

Sounds like we'll add some guppies to this tank then too the plants are literally out the top, plenty of hiding places. Thanks again for all your help! This is an amazing ride! Already thinking of who next how would an angler fair? I just think their fishing is cool, I will do some research now.

 

[lion king]

So you want a frog fish; I call them anglers

I've kept a few, my first going back 25 years. These are very difficult fish to keep and I am still very frustrated as to the success in keeping these guys long term. I do have some information I would like to share for those interested. Be forewarned, they are not for everyone and do take...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[AngiGiles]

Our atennata died he was eating 2-3 ghost shrimp every other day until Wednesday. He wouldn't eat at all, and friday morning we woke up to him stuck to the wave maker, what gives?! Wilson is just fine. I'm so sad!

 

[lion king]

Our atennata died he was eating 2-3 ghost shrimp every other day until Wednesday. He wouldn't eat at all, and friday morning we woke up to him stuck to the wave maker, what gives?! Wilson is just fine. I'm so sad!

Sometimes fish die and you'll never know why. To die suddenly while eating well and no signs of disease with other healthy fish being in the tank unaffected, I can only tell you a couple of usual suspects. Cyanide is being used more and more, and some fish show no signs and then die unexpectedly. This can sometimes be associated with seizures and faded color. Organ failure due to some other poisoning like copper, many suppliers and lfs will use copper to manage disease and it proves deadly to lions. I've also known suppliers and lfs perform formalin dips which will also prove deadly. There are many poisonings that can damage internal organs and you will nevr know everything they could have been exposed to. You did everything right and that's all you can do.

 

[AngiGiles]

Sometimes fish die and you'll never know why. To die suddenly while eating well and no signs of disease with other healthy fish being in the tank unaffected, I can only tell you a couple of usual suspects. Cyanide is being used more and more, and some fish show no signs and then die unexpectedly. This can sometimes be associated with seizures and faded color. Organ failure due to some other poisoning like copper, many suppliers and lfs will use copper to manage disease and it proves deadly to lions. I've also known suppliers and lfs perform formalin dips which will also prove deadly. There are many poisonings that can damage internal organs and you will nevr know everything they could have been exposed to. You did everything right and that's all you can do.

That's kind of what I suspected as well. I also wondered if swallowing a shrimp backwards would do anything negative?? The guy who sold us Wilson actually said that ghost shrimp are bad, like McDonald's, and that they could cause blockages because of their exoskeletons... is there any truth to that? The shrimp were pretty small, but he did have one feeding where the shrimp antennae were sticking out of his mouth, but he ate after that.

 

[lion king]

That's kind of what I suspected as well. I also wondered if swallowing a shrimp backwards would do anything negative?? The guy who sold us Wilson actually said that ghost shrimp are bad, like McDonald's, and that they could cause blockages because of their exoskeletons... is there any truth to that? The shrimp were pretty small, but he did have one feeding where the shrimp antennae were sticking out of his mouth, but he ate after that.

Utter nonsense, what do you think they eat in the wild. I like humans that think it's like a "pineapple under the sea" and they have some sort of a short order cook down there. I've fed ghost shrimp as a staple for 20 years. My last antennata lived with me for 9 years, my current one has been with me for 3 years, he probably eats about 20 ghosties a week. My zebra will only eat ghosties, he's also been with me for 3 years.

It is very unlikely for them to get bloat from ghost shrimp. Bloat is caused by overfeeding or eating something too large, very unlikely with a ghost shrimp, And ghost shrimp are not like McDonalds, what a moron. It's a complete live food, that exoskeleton(shell) is concentrated protein, minerals like ca and mg, and other vitamins, They don't shell their food in the wild, that's the one thing people forget about when feeding dead shrimp in captivity. Those that keep their predators like pebbletooth eels for a dozen or more years, always feed whole shrimp. The absence of shell and bone in a dead diet is one of the causes of malnutrition.

 

[AngiGiles]

Utter nonsense, what do you think they eat in the wild. I like humans that think it's like a "pineapple under the sea" and they have some sort of a short order cook down there. I've fed ghost shrimp as a staple for 20 years. My last antennata lived with me for 9 years, my current one has been with me for 3 years, he probably eats about 20 ghosties a week. My zebra will only eat ghosties, he's also been with me for 3 years.

It is very unlikely for them to get bloat from ghost shrimp. Bloat is caused by overfeeding or eating something too large, very unlikely with a ghost shrimp, And ghost shrimp are not like McDonalds, what a moron. It's a complete live food, that exoskeleton(shell) is concentrated protein, minerals like ca and mg, and other vitamins, They don't shell their food in the wild, that's the one thing people forget about when feeding dead shrimp in captivity. Those that keep their predators like pebbletooth eels for a dozen or more years, always feed whole shrimp. The absence of shell and bone in a dead diet is one of the causes of malnutrition.

I didn't doubt you for a minute, don't read me wrong You're advice, posts, threads, and healthy animals are all I needed. It just worried me that I did something wrong, overall we're just bummed, I'm a vet tech, I save animals, not kill them. When we thought about it, we've only gotten 3 saltwater fish from this store, we had them ordered in and picked them up as soon as they arrived, 2 of the 3 died in the first few weeks. We decided we won't order through them anymore, in case it is some type of poisoning like copper, cyanide, etc. We will certainly get Wilson some more friends, just have to find a new place.

 

[lion king]

I didn't doubt you for a minute, don't read me wrong You're advice, posts, threads, and healthy animals are all I needed. It just worried me that I did something wrong, overall we're just bummed, I'm a vet tech, I save animals, not kill them. When we thought about it, we've only gotten 3 saltwater fish from this store, we had them ordered in and picked them up as soon as they arrived, 2 of the 3 died in the first few weeks. We decided we won't order through them anymore, in case it is some type of poisoning like copper, cyanide, etc. We will certainly get Wilson some more friends, just have to find a new place.

Yes the source is what you always have to look at, today it is tougher and tougher. Where did you get Wilson, he seems like he has settled in great. Hobbyist always think it is their fault, and most lfs try and make you feel that way. Over time I have found a couple of lfs here, that all the fish die, almost always. Both run copper and run low sg; another trick to suppress, not cure, parasites and disease. These are 2 very negative signs and getting fish from a lfs that does this, is very risky. I do make it a habit to pick them up in the bag, but that also means the supplier source must be a good one, and that's harder for us to find out. I will warn you; antennata's, radiata's', fu manchu's, mombasa's; all have dismal survival rates. I lost a rhino in observation, before this one that I have had for 4 years now, that was tough pill to swallow.

 

[AngiGiles]

@lion king I think we may have fed Wilson too big of a shrimp, I found fresh frozen raw "small" shrimp at the store and Wilson seemed to love them, he ate his second (last) one 5 days ago but I think we should have cut them! He seems to be breathing heavier than normal and I took some picture of his belly it seems bloated and his anus seems a bit distended. Is there anything I can do to help him along? I did a large waterchange, he's just sitting on the rock huffin at me.

 

[lion king]

@lion king I think we may have fed Wilson too big of a shrimp, I found fresh frozen raw "small" shrimp at the store and Wilson seemed to love them, he ate his second (last) one 5 days ago but I think we should have cut them! He seems to be breathing heavier than normal and I took some picture of his belly it seems bloated and his anus seems a bit distended. Is there anything I can do to help him along? I did a large waterchange, he's just sitting on the rock huffin at me.

Boost mg up to 1600ppm. I like doing it at 100ppm intervals until I reach 1600. Mg may help with digestion, I wrote a thread "Why mg". I documented bloated predators where I boosted mg and showed pics of actually bowel movements. Fish like anglers and scorps actually poop like a dog turd, so you may even see it laying around the substrate.