Would Seahorses be a mistake in my tank?

[keddre]

I was thinking about adding sea horses in my tank, but not being setup for them, I'm not sure if there would be any arguments in my tank. I'm just going to spell out everything and please don't hold back any thoughts.

Technical Specs:
55 gallon
Deep Sand Bed
20 Gallon Fuge
74-76 F
Caulerpa Prolifera

Current Inhabitants:
-Fish
1 Banggai Cardinal (don't mind getting rid of)
1 Watchman goby
1 guppy

-inverts
2 flame scallops
2 coco worms
2 feather dusters
1 long spine urchin
1 pistol shrimp
various snails
various hermit crabs
1 sea apple
1 sea hare

-coral
none

Current Feeding:
a ton of phytoplankton
1 daily cube of "marine cuisine for all saltwater carnivores"

What I would add first:
wider array of macroalgae
branching sponges or a gorgonian coral

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

There are reasons most seahorse tanks are just seahorse tank.

 

[keddre]

There are reasons most seahorse tanks are just seahorse tank.

Sorry, I'm still reading the stickies here but from what I read so far, this is mostly due to the horses being bullied, out competed for food, or the fish being unable to handle cooler waters. While I would have to drop my tank down still in temperature, I don't think those three things should be an issue. But as I said, I'm still researching and that could quickly change

 

[Roy 9121]

I have never tried seahorses myself, but everything I have read about it says they need a sp. specific tank. But i guess if you could figure out a way to feed them, it may work.

 

[vlangel]

I have had seahorses for 3 years now and my experience is that I highly recommend that you do NOT put them in your reef tank.

My main reason is your temperature is favorable for pathogenic bacteria to be fueled should any excess mysis be left over after a feeding. Your fish are probably ok. Banggai cardinals are exceptable tankmates but you need to feed mysis instead of other frozen foods. However any fish not coming from the same source as the seahorse can intoduce disease that the seahorse lacks immunity for.

The flame scallops, pistol shrimp and long spined urchin are not good tank mates for seahorses. Bivalves can close on a tail of a hitching seahorse and cause problems and a pistol shrimp can pinch the skin of a seahorse and open it up for a skin infection. The urchin can also hurt the skin of a seahorse. Seahorses are VERY vulnerable to bacterial infections. Its terribly heartbreaking when they succumb. I have experienced that when I tried to keep them in less than ideal conditions. In fact I have even experienced losses when I was mindful of keeping them in a tank specifically set up for them.

Seahorses are also very dirty and although I love deep sand beds, I do not love them for seahorses, at least not in the display tank. I do have a DSB in my fuge after the oversized protein skimmer has removed some of the bioload. The heavy bioload and tiny mysis particles expelled out of seahorses gills can quickly gunk up a DSB beyond its capacity to do what it is intended to do.

If you just read the stickied article how seahorses differ from other fish, you will have an idea why they need a tank tailored for their needs.
I do not want to discourage you from keeping ponies, I am just trying to spare you some of the painful lessons I learned the hard way.

 

[Jimmyneptune]

If you want seahorses just do a seahorse tank. You will just be doing damage control if you try a mixed tank.

 

[rich nyc]

you may want to call manhattan aquariums. they have a display tank which is full of corals, fish and seahorse. I never thought of getting one but was always amazed that every month when I go there it seems to thrive. Maybe because it is part of a big system.

 

[rayjay]

Seahorses are also very dirty

MY seahorses are VERY clean as I wash them 24/7.
On a serious note though, I recommend starting with a sterile seahorse specific tank for reasons already mentioned.
While you will see seahorses in tanks like reef tanks or just with fish only tanks, and, sometimes under less than optimal conditions, more seahorses will die in the attempts to do so.
Seahorses, like people, have varying degrees of resistance to disease. Some seem to never get problems, while others are always problematic, with the majority of them somewhere in between those extremes.
Now if you assume because you see a seahorse surviving in less than ideal conditions that you can do it too, don't be surprised if your seahorse(s) experiences problems or even death because you don't know what it's immune system is capable of handling. Can you look around at a crowded mall and tell which ones are always sickly or always well?
The solution IMO is to provide the most optimal conditions possible so that ALL have a better chance of survival.

 

[I'm a natural blue]

I have to agree with most of what is being said here. I have been keeping seahorses for almost two years now and I have a 90g mixed reef as well. The conditions favorable for each system are VERY different. I spend more time cleaning and taking care of the seahorse tank than the reef. For instance, I MUST do a 20% (sometimes more) water change EVERY WEEK on the SH tank but my reef can and will tolerate less frequency.

Additionally, in the reef I can keep crabs which are a great CUC but I have learned the hard way that crabs and SH's don't mix.

Temperature is a significant factor as well. I have a chiller (I live in a sub tropical climate) and keep my SH tank at 73 degrees.

Another difference btwn my tanks is bristle worms. With a deep sand bed I am sure you have plenty. These can stick the SH's and cause them injury since SH's have skin not scales.

One last concern I would have with your system is the sea apple. If it died it will nuke the tank and take everything (not just the seahorses) down with it.

I encourage you to try seahorses! They are such facinating creatures but they really need their own system. I learned this the hard way too when I thought (bc I didn't do enough research) I could try a SH in my reef. The outcome was a hard learned heartbreaking lesson that caused my seahorse to die. In hind sight, I wish I had done more research before trying to keep them. It's true if the system isn't right from the start you will constantly be behind the 8 ball and chasing solutions. I applaud you for reaching out to find answers! Keep asking questions. This is an EXCELLENT forum for that. Most of what I have learned is from the kind and knowlegeable people here and two other websites FusedJaw and Seahorse Sources articles section. I wish you the best! You are already on the right path by "spelling it out"!!!!!

Back to the SH tank I go! It's maintenance Monday!

 

[keddre]

Alright, thanks everyone. Like I said, the seahorses were an afterthought so I'm not upset that I can't have them and starting a second tank isn't practical right now, maybe another day. Thanks again

 

[I'm a natural blue]

Alright, thanks everyone. Like I said, the seahorses were an afterthought so I'm not upset that I can't have them and starting a second tank isn't practical right now, maybe another day. Thanks again

Well, if and when you do decide to get a second tank, be sure to stop back here before you buy it so the people in this amazing group can help you get a perfect set up! Happy Reefing!

 

[Rick Cavanaugh]

I have had seahorses in a reef with coral for many years. It works after all they live on reefs in the Ocean.

However, you water is too hot. Max temp should be 72F. Next no urchins. They will eat seahorses. Yes, urchins eat anything. SH will hitch onto something and the urchin may inch up that object and attach to the SH. The sH will hitch harder and the urchin will start eating him alive. This happened to a friend of mines SH.

The most important thing is colder water. Next is good water flow, not SPS strong, but good flow. No spastic feeding fish. Only buy captive bred and you should be fine. No strong stinging corals. No anemones. Crabs can be very risky, same issue as urchins.


I breed and raise H. Erectus and have been raising SH for over 14 years.

 

[Rick Cavanaugh]

I forgot to mention, I have a deep sand bed in my adult tank. The fry tank is bare bottom. I use an algae reactor to keep nitrates <5 and nitrates <0.03 I have SPS corals in the tank with the adults and I feed 3-4x per day.

corals will do Ok at 72F.

Bristle worms are OK too. I actually think they help. If food stays on the bottom too long and the SH eats it an internal infection can occur. the bristle worms solve this issue.

A 72 F reef is MUCH better than a dedicated tank with polluted water and stagnant old food on the bottom. Water quality is harder to maintain pristine for SPS, but if you do, the SH will do well. They are very messy eaters and too many SH keepers don't even try to keep water parameters good and they end up with injections.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Alright, thanks everyone. Like I said, the seahorses were an afterthought so I'm not upset that I can't have them and starting a second tank isn't practical right now, maybe another day. Thanks again

I caved one day. But I bought a jelly fish though. A blubber jelly. Scrambled, tank from the garage , slapped it together fast with parts n rock from first tank. Skip cycled it , used fresh ocean water , and brought the jelly home.

It was fun. Had it about four months.
It was great. I'd do it again.

How I did it was slowly hoard the parts for another tank for qt or specimen specific or emergency. That was a long patient hoarding. Lol.
I also had the food ready. And oddly enough, I knew a lot about jellies for no reason except i read about them a lot.

So plan for the long game in Reefing. IMO.

 

[meir]

Honestly if u want a fish that seriously gives the seahorse feel but isn't as delicate, try the dragon face pipefish

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Honestly if u want a fish that seriously gives the seahorse feel but isn't as delicate, try the dragon face pipefish

Good call.

You might only have to run a UV then.

 

[vlangel]

I have had seahorses in a reef with coral for many years. It works after all they live on reefs in the Ocean.

However, you water is too hot. Max temp should be 72F. Next no urchins. They will eat seahorses. Yes, urchins eat anything. SH will hitch onto something and the urchin may inch up that object and attach to the SH. The sH will hitch harder and the urchin will start eating him alive. This happened to a friend of mines SH.

The most important thing is colder water. Next is good water flow, not SPS strong, but good flow. No spastic feeding fish. Only buy captive bred and you should be fine. No strong stinging corals. No anemones. Crabs can be very risky, same issue as urchins.


I breed and raise H. Erectus and have been raising SH for over 14 years.

Hi Rick,

Actually I keep my seahorses in a display with LR and live coral and macro algaes as well. From my 1st post I guess it could be assumed that I only recommend artificial decor so thank you for clarifying.

One question, do you do any maintenance on the DSB other than dance your fingers over the top half inch of it? How many adults do you have and in how large of a tank? I have always been afraid to have a DSB with seahorses because of the bioload.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Hi Rick,

Actually I keep my seahorses in a display with LR and live coral and macro algaes as well. From my 1st post I guess it could be assumed that I only recommend artificial decor so thank you for clarifying.

One question, do you do any maintenance on the DSB other than dance your fingers over the top half inch of it? How many adults do you have and in how large of a tank? I have always been afraid to have a DSB with seahorses because of the bioload.

Good question.

My understanding has always been it's not the Dsb bio load but bacterial infection risk.

 

[Yuki Rihwa]

DSB take months before it become effective in your aquarium and you can only vacuum the first thin top layer of the sand, if you go deeper then you will messing up everything. Also, sand bed need to be thicker than 6 inches to be effective, I would refer 8~10 inches deep though anything less than that seem like wasting time and cuase more trouble than good but it's just me, someone else will have different opinion about DSB.

 

[Rick Cavanaugh]

I have a 45 gallon with a DSB. The DSB is 10 years old. It gets a light vacuuming maybe once every 2 years. It is old school and many don't like them as they can be a phosphate sink. I never had an issue with that. The BIGGEST problem with DSB is the aquarium now smaller.. My adult tank is overstocked. Well beyond what most would recommend. I have 6 seahorses and a pipefish in a 45 gallon. I keep acros and lps in the tank including some that are supposed problems with seahorses. I experiment with the rules as many of the Seahorse keeping rules are very old and not very accurate.

SH are very sloppy eaters with a primitive digestive system. They can increase nitrates and phosphates and bacteria (good and bad) quickly if you are not on top of it. This is the reason you want LOTS of live rock and limited macro algaes. Macros, will trap food and it will spoil. The SH can then eat this and get an internal infection that will kill the SH. I am not a fan of the Seahorse and macro algae tanks with very little live rock.

Main causes of SH keeping failures in order
#1 Buying or trying to keep wild caught. Just don't try. Leave this for the SH breeding experts.
#2 Water too warm. H. Erectus are native up to New England. Hot water increases bacteria and it can go out of control
#3. Feeding 1x per day and feeding a lot. Food will rot on the bottom and cause internal infections Feed 2x OR MORE per day.
#4. Not enough bio filter. SH are very messy don't try a small biofilter.
#5. Not watching water quality. Monitor water like it is a SPS tank and treat it as such. Pristine water = healthy live stock
#6 Using Caulerpa as main filter. Caulerpa will go sexual at one point and wipe out the tank.
#7 Not enough flow. Higher flow can keep food suspended and allow SH to eat more.
#8 No clean up crew to quickly eat uneaten food. a couple of nassarius are great

There are many other things that you can do wrong. But IMHO keep pristine water, keep it cold with a nice flow and you have won most (not all) of the battles.

SH are very slow methodical eaters. House them only with fish that are slow methodical eaters. Don't enven think of putting in a spastic tang. Also SH hitch. Anything that can crawl up and eat them needs to be avoided such as urchins and many sea stars. Gobies, pipefish, blennies and such are good. Crabs and shrimps with caution. Small shrimp such as sexy shrimp and such are ok. I have kept sexy shrimp, pom pom crabs and couple of blue legged hermits with not issue. If you do add anything, watch them and make sure they behave.

Many corals are ok. The real boring, xenia, GSP an waving hand are the safest. Gorgonians are ok, the SH may hurt the gorgonian. SPS are OK, the SH may kill the acro from hitching.... No hammers, torches or frogspawns. Many other LPS with caution. I have caulastrea, montipora, Acropora and chalice and have had ZERO issues.


If you notice in my list of reasons for failure, many are related to excess bacteria in rotting food or excess bacteria from poor water quality.