Would soaking tubing in acidified water remove tin?

Cory

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After reading @Dr. Jim thread, and how he discovered that tin leeches from vinyl hoses via icp and green tubing from eheim, im wondering if soaking the hose in acidfied water would remove the tin leeching effects?
 

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Perhaps just find a different brand of tubing if you're worried about that brand? FWIW, natural sea water has about a 0.003ppm tin level.
 
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Perhaps just find a different brand of tubing if you're worried about that brand? FWIW, natural sea water has about a 0.003ppm tin level.
I might have to do that, it would be nice to use what i have already though.
 

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according to this site for preparations of elements for ICP...
"Chemical Compatibility: Soluble in HCl and dilute HF / HNO3. Avoid neutral to basic media...."

So HCl ought to pull out significantly more Tin than would be released through dissolution in tank water...

unless the mechanism of release in tank water includes organisms boring/scraping/attacking the pipe surface. In that case, I don't see how an acid soak would help.
I also don't know if an acid soak for hoses / pipes etc would have any other undesirable side-effects.
 
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according to this site for preparations of elements for ICP...
"Chemical Compatibility: Soluble in HCl and dilute HF / HNO3. Avoid neutral to basic media...."

So HCl ought to pull out significantly more Tin than would be released through dissolution in tank water...

unless the mechanism of release in tank water includes organisms boring/scraping/attacking the pipe surface. In that case, I don't see how an acid soak would help.
I also don't know if an acid soak for hoses / pipes etc would have any other undesirable side-effects.
Well thanks for the thoughts. This tin issue is comparable to the dinoflagelet problem arising recently. I wonder if they are connected?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I expect the tin in plastic is an organotin compound like dibutyltindilaurate, not inorganic tin.


i think it will be hard to "remove" it as it will keep slowly diffusing tot eh surface, but an organic solvent such as ethanol might be a much better solvent for removing it than water.
 
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I expect the tin in plastic is an organotin compound like dibutyltindilaurate, not inorganic tin.


i think it will be hard to "remove" it as it will keep slowly diffusing tot eh surface, but an organic solvent such as ethanol might be a much better solvent for removing it than water.
Okay thats good info.

Im thinking here outside the box.

Ethanol might remove it, but what would lock it in? Anything that could lock it in to prevent unbinding?

Subtractive to additive process. Thoughts?
 

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Okay thats good info.

Im thinking here outside the box.

Ethanol might remove it, but what would lock it in? Anything that could lock it in to prevent unbinding?

Subtractive to additive process. Thoughts?

I think that would be difficult, as it is intended to be able to move around a little bit in a plastic. Better to use a plastic that never had it.

I think polyethylene and polypropylene do not use tin stabilizers.

Avoid PVC:


".Rigid PVC typically contains between 10% and 15% by weight of additives like heavy metal salts of lead, tin, barium and zinc, or organotin compounds."
 

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Avoiding polyurethanes and silicones may also be worthwhile as tin can be used in manufacturing of the polymer:


"Room temperature vulcanisation of silicone polymers
Silicone elastomers are widely used in many applications ranging from biomaterials [31]. To coatings and sealants, and so forth [32-34]. Although there are several methods available for their synthesis [35,36]. The most common of these are high-temperature radical cure, room-temperature vulcanization using either tin- or titanium-derived hydrolysis/condensation catalysts, or platinumcatalyzed hydrosilylation"

" Two basic mechanisms have been proposed for the formation of the urethane linkage from the isocyanate and alcohol, involving either a direct insertion of the isocyanate into a Sn–O bond, or the organotin derivative acting as a Lewis acid "
 

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I just got an ICP test back from my Frag tank high in Tin as well (5ug/l). Its odd, because this tank is in series with my DT... my Dos does an AWC into my frag tank, and a separate Dos removes the same amount each night. The ICP test in my DT is 0, so I'm 99.9% sure its leeching from something in my frag tank.
I am using flexible PVC tubing to connect to my sump. Other than that, there isn't anything much different.
Would replumbing with PVC be better or should I consider running carbon? Would carbon even work on inorganic Sn?
 

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I just got an ICP test back from my Frag tank high in Tin as well (5ug/l). Its odd, because this tank is in series with my DT... my Dos does an AWC into my frag tank, and a separate Dos removes the same amount each night. The ICP test in my DT is 0, so I'm 99.9% sure its leeching from something in my frag tank.
I am using flexible PVC tubing to connect to my sump. Other than that, there isn't anything much different.
Would replumbing with PVC be better or should I consider running carbon? Would carbon even work on inorganic Sn?
I don't think a level of 5 is high enough to worry about although of course it should be monitored.
I've found high levels of tin leaching from common plastic tubing (and much less from PVC pipe).
I found TYGON2475 to be a very inert and appropriate tubing (except for cost).
IME, tin won't be removed by carbon, Polyfilters, Continuum PowerCleanse, Seachem Cuprisorb or TLF Metasorb
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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The uptake of tin into organisms or into binders and GAC etc., will vary strongly based on the chemical form of the tin, which, at the moment, seems almost totally unknown in reef aquaria.

Even if we know the form it starts in when in plastic, for example, that may not be the form swimming around the tank since these things easily change.
 
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The uptake of tin into organisms or into binders and GAC etc., will vary strongly based on the chemical form of the tin, which, at the moment, seems almost totally unknown in reef aquaria.

Even if we know the form it starts in when in plastic, for example, that may not be the form swimming around the tank since these things easily change.
If its attatched to an organic, wouldn't carbon do an okay job removing it?
 
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That's interesting.... but I wonder how practical it is to depend on macroalgae to remove/lower tin. (It did nothing for my tin issues).
Well im not sure what those numbers mean, but i wanted to share. Maybe just caulerpa does a good job while others not.
 

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If its attatched to an organic, wouldn't carbon do an okay job removing it?

It depends on the organic, but yes, GAC would bind the hydrophobic forms I see listed for use in PVC. Whether it stays in that form, I do not know.
 
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