Wrasse hiding and not eating

[DeadEnd]

Hey all,

I was wondering if someone can give me their input. I have been QTing 2 wrasses for the past 3 weeks. I slowly raised copper to 2.4 over the course of a week and they have been in 2.45 copper for 13 days. I have dosed metroplex for a week and have dosed Prazipro once.

Today one of the wrasses has been hiding all day, he is breathing heavily and has not eaten at all.

I performed a 50% water change but it seems is not helping at all (while maintaining the same copper levels). I was wondering if anyone can suggest me what to do next.

Thanks

 

[jkcoral]

Some wrasses are more sensitive to copper. Maybe it is having a negative reaction at these levels?

When did you treat with prazi? Could be a negative reaction to treatment along with copper? Here is a comment from Humble Fish on another thread about this:
Post in thread 'How to quarantine a wrasse?'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine-a-wrasse.330110/post-4102875

Edit: forgot to add that you need good oxygenation/air exchange running prazi. Do you have an air stone or something else helping with that? Also, are there enough hiding places for them to feel safe and less stressed?

 

[DeadEnd]

Some wrasses are more sensitive to copper. Maybe it is having a negative reaction at these levels?

When did you treat with prazi? Could be a negative reaction to treatment along with copper? Here is a comment from Humble Fish on another thread about this:
Post in thread 'How to quarantine a wrasse?'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine-a-wrasse.330110/post-4102875

Edit: forgot to add that you need good oxygenation/air exchange running prazi. Do you have an air stone or something else helping with that? Also, are there enough hiding places for them to feel safe and less stressed?

The tank has a HoB filter, a powehead pointing upwards to break the surface of the water and a sponge filter.

Mmm maybe it is a bad reaction to Prazipro mmmm

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey all,

I was wondering if someone can give me their input. I have been QTing 2 wrasses for the past 3 weeks. I slowly raised copper to 2.4 over the course of a week and they have been in 2.45 copper for 13 days. I have dosed metroplex for a week and have dosed Prazipro once.

Today one of the wrasses has been hiding all day, he is breathing heavily and has not eaten at all.

I performed a 50% water change but it seems is not helping at all (while maintaining the same copper levels). I was wondering if anyone can suggest me what to do next.

Thanks

Copper should be treated a full 30 days at 2.25-2.5 for a FULL 30 days
Water change only if ammonia became elevated. In essence waterchange interrupted the cycle you would also have to start cycle again.
I assume it’s copper safe and not chelated?
How are you monitoring copper level?
Monitor ammonia yes but don’t change water abruptly
Also add air stone for added oxygen during treatment

 

[DeadEnd]

Copper should be treated a full 30 days at 2.25-2.5 for a FULL 30 days
Water change only if ammonia became elevated. In essence waterchange interrupted the cycle you would also have to start cycle again.
I assume it’s copper safe and not chelated?
How are you monitoring copper level?
Monitor ammonia yes but don’t change water abruptly
Also add air stone for added oxygen during treatment

I am doing 14 days in copper and then transferring to an observation tank for 14 days.

I changed the water but matched the copper level to 2.4.

I am using Hanna to measure the copper.

I have a HOB filter, a sponge filter, and a power head pointing upwards.

The tank has 3 fishes and only one has this weird behaviour.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am doing 14 days in copper and then transferring to an observation tank for 14 days.

I changed the water but matched the copper level to 2.4.

I am using Hanna to measure the copper.

I have a HOB filter, a sponge filter, and a power head pointing upwards.

The tank has 3 fishes and only one has this weird behaviour.

Dosing copper, metro and prazi at the same time isn't a good idea. I'd skip the metro altogether, as its use overlaps that of copper and copper works better. Prazi can really suck oxygen out of the water (Prazipro is worse at this than regular prazi). You need a good air stone, but your sponge filter is probably serving that purpose. Wrasse are always reported to be sensitive to copper and to prazi. I've not seen that myself in hundreds of quarantine runs, but it stands to reason that copper and prazi together would make the issue worse.

What type of wrasse is it?
What copper are you using?
What is the ammonia testing at?
What are the two other fish that are doing well?

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

Hey all,

I was wondering if someone can give me their input. I have been QTing 2 wrasses for the past 3 weeks. I slowly raised copper to 2.4 over the course of a week and they have been in 2.45 copper for 13 days. I have dosed metroplex for a week and have dosed Prazipro once.

Today one of the wrasses has been hiding all day, he is breathing heavily and has not eaten at all.

I performed a 50% water change but it seems is not helping at all (while maintaining the same copper levels). I was wondering if anyone can suggest me what to do next.

Thanks

I would suggest - 1. don't 'mix' medications - do one at a time - especially in an elective QT setting. Have you checked ammonia, etc? And as at least one other person has said - you probably need more oxygenation. it could also be that there is another problem (are you sure your copper test is accurate, etc)

 

[DeadEnd]

Dosing copper, metro and prazi at the same time isn't a good idea. I'd skip the metro altogether, as its use overlaps that of copper and copper works better. Prazi can really suck oxygen out of the water (Prazipro is worse at this than regular prazi). You need a good air stone, but your sponge filter is probably serving that purpose. Wrasse are always reported to be sensitive to copper and to prazi. I've not seen that myself in hundreds of quarantine runs, but it stands to reason that copper and prazi together would make the issue worse.

What type of wrasse is it?
What copper are you using?
What is the ammonia testing at?
What are the two other fish that are doing well?

Jay

There is a lot of water movement that is breaking the surface of the water. Before starting this QT I went through the forum and read that the problem with prazi and copper is the oxygen deployment. This is why I made absolutely sure to provide enough oxygen to the water. The HoB filter is oversized, the sponge filter too and with the powerhead pointing upwards I believe there is enough movement.

It's a solorensis wrasse.
Power copper.
0 according to the seachem badge and test kit.
A carpenter wrasse and a banggai cardinal. (All fishes are under 2-3 inches)

I would suggest - 1. don't 'mix' medications - do one at a time - especially in an elective QT setting. Have you checked ammonia, etc? And as at least one other person has said - you probably need more oxygenation. it could also be that there is another problem (are you sure your copper test is accurate, etc)

But if it was low oxygenation wouldn't the other fish show similar symptoms?

I test copper using Hanna's copper test kit every morning and use different vials to prevent bad readings.

---------
Yesterday I did a 30 minutes methanyle blue bath and moved him to an observation tank (away from the medication soup) and he appears to be doing better today.

 

[DeadEnd]

Quick update: He has been hiding all day and have not eaten yet. I though he was doing better but I believe he is still breathing heavily.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Quick update: He has been hiding all day and have not eaten yet. I though he was doing better but I believe he is still breathing heavily.

Can you get a short video of it?
Jay

 

[DeadEnd]

Can you get a short video of it?
Jay

Here it is! Sorry if the video is not great but where he is it's hard to get a nice shot!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here it is! Sorry if the video is not great but where he is it's hard to get a nice shot!

Thanks - tough to see much. it is breathing deeply, but not too fast.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

There is a lot of water movement that is breaking the surface of the water. Before starting this QT I went through the forum and read that the problem with prazi and copper is the oxygen deployment. This is why I made absolutely sure to provide enough oxygen to the water. The HoB filter is oversized, the sponge filter too and with the powerhead pointing upwards I believe there is enough movement.

It's a solorensis wrasse.
Power copper.
0 according to the seachem badge and test kit.
A carpenter wrasse and a banggai cardinal. (All fishes are under 2-3 inches)


But if it was low oxygenation wouldn't the other fish show similar symptoms?

I test copper using Hanna's copper test kit every morning and use different vials to prevent bad readings.

---------
Yesterday I did a 30 minutes methanyle blue bath and moved him to an observation tank (away from the medication soup) and he appears to be doing better today.

I made a general statement - that I think most people here would agree with - it's not good to mix medications period - unless it's absolutely necessary. From my reading (and perhaps I misunderstood), you used copper, metronidazole and prazipro - for an elective quarantine. I'm not sure that oxygenation is to blame. Every medication individually can have side effects - and it's IMHO - impossible to tell whether in an individual fish - 2 medications are causing a negative effect. In other words, I do not believe that oxygenation is the ONLY reason not to mix Prazipro and copper and other medications.

PS - I wasn't trying to criticize you - I was only trying to explain why not to do it for an ELECTIVE QT. If you have a fish with bad fuses, and Ich, sure you CAN use both. But - IMHO - it's best to do a QT protocol in order. Right now your fish has a partial copper QT and a partial prazipro treatment - and metronidazole (not sure what that was for).

 

[DeadEnd]

I made a general statement - that I think most people here would agree with - it's not good to mix medications period - unless it's absolutely necessary. From my reading (and perhaps I misunderstood), you used copper, metronidazole and prazipro - for an elective quarantine. I'm not sure that oxygenation is to blame. Every medication individually can have side effects - and it's IMHO - impossible to tell whether in an individual fish - 2 medications are causing a negative effect. In other words, I do not believe that oxygenation is the ONLY reason not to mix Prazipro and copper and other medications.

PS - I wasn't trying to criticize you - I was only trying to explain why not to do it for an ELECTIVE QT. If you have a fish with bad fuses, and Ich, sure you CAN use both. But - IMHO - it's best to do a QT protocol in order. Right now your fish has a partial copper QT and a partial prazipro treatment - and metronidazole (not sure what that was for).

Oh I didn't feel like you were trying to criticize me at all! I am new to this and I was trying to figure out if the low oxygen symptoms would show in the other fishes as well.

I agree. The fact that I ran multiple meds at the same time it is making it really hard for me to know what's going on and stressed out this little guy. If I need to QT more fish in the future I will space out the meds.