Yellow flanked wrasse spine curvature

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pixelhustler

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I bought a yellow flanked wrasse a few weeks ago and it’s been swimming with a curved/sagged tail since day one. She’s really healthy and can/does swim very fast when needed (occasional chasing, feeding, etc). Most of the time though, she won’t swim very far and she takes breaks here and there hiding/resting in crevices or on the sand.

Other than the bent spine and odd behavior, she seems very healthy, eats a lot and doesn’t show any lethargic/gasping behavior. I know with female guppies, lack of calcium can lead to a bent/sagging spine so I wonder if it’s a nutritional deficiency or an injury she sustained when first imported. Any ideas?

Edit: She came like this and my params are decent. My tank is all wrasses and they get along well, other than some occasional chasing from my Carpenter’s.

1.026
Am 0
NO2 0
NO3 14
PO .05
Alk 8.5-9
Ca 475
Mg 1460
57CFF66E-4252-465C-B208-5564870DBCCF.jpeg 6309550E-D15F-4FAE-B424-6752E8207135.jpeg F7EF7677-5242-44EC-9E87-4319E722F76E.jpeg
 
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It is bent spine and it is possible the fish was stuck in corner of shipping bag or other reason this happens is tuberculosis in the fish. Often you will find that wholesalers and shippers are not selective and net the first fish they can and ship it
I would contact shipper and make them aware. Can fish survive like this- Most definitely yes. The fact that its eating is good.
Regarding your readings, what test kit(s) are you using ?

Mag is quite high (range is 1300-1350)
Salinity- bring to 1.026 gradually
Phos - best is <.04
CA - keep an eye on it. Best is 400-450

Foods:
LRS reef frenzy
Hikari marine cuisine
spirulina brine shrimp
mysis shrimp
plankton
 
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pixelhustler

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Regarding your readings, what test kit(s) are you using ?

Mag is quite high (range is 1300-1350)
Salinity- bring to 1.026 gradually
Phos - best is <.04
CA - keep an eye on it. Best is 400-450
I use Hanna for most stuff other than Alk-ca-mg which I test with a Trident. I find Mg is not accurate at all (reads about 100ppm higher) and ca is 25-50 off. From comparing to my past ICPs it should be closer to 1360/450 but who knows. Things have been doing great (no acros or harder SPS) but I feel for the wrasse. Definitely does not look comfortable when he’s swimming at normal pace ir takes a break on the sand but gets by just fine. He can still dart off like my other wrasses when needed but most of the time it hovers. I make my own frozen food cubes (spirulina, nori, mysis, some reef frenzy, silversides, fish oil, etc) and keep them fat so hopefully it will help strengthen the muscle tissue and improve a bit over the next few months
 

Jay Hemdal

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I bought a yellow flanked wrasse a few weeks ago and it’s been swimming with a curved/sagged tail since day one. She’s really healthy and can/does swim very fast when needed (occasional chasing, feeding, etc). Most of the time though, she won’t swim very far and she takes breaks here and there hiding/resting in crevices or on the sand.

Other than the bent spine and odd behavior, she seems very healthy, eats a lot and doesn’t show any lethargic/gasping behavior. I know with female guppies, lack of calcium can lead to a bent/sagging spine so I wonder if it’s a nutritional deficiency or an injury she sustained when first imported. Any ideas?

Edit: She came like this and my params are decent. My tank is all wrasses and they get along well, other than some occasional chasing from my Carpenter’s.

1.026
Am 0
NO2 0
NO3 14
PO .05
Alk 8.5-9
Ca 475
Mg 1460
57CFF66E-4252-465C-B208-5564870DBCCF.jpeg 6309550E-D15F-4FAE-B424-6752E8207135.jpeg F7EF7677-5242-44EC-9E87-4319E722F76E.jpeg


A short video under white light would help, but wrasse are prone to a neurological issue that nobody knows the cause of. The main symptom is a bent spine, swimming difficulty, but the fish will still feed, or at least try to. A number of causes have been proposed: damage when captured in a net, running into something in the tank, bacterial, viral or myxozoan infection. I've even heard nematode worms in the fish's brain. All of these are just guesses, nobody really knows the cause. The trouble is, that also means there is no known cure. In some cases, the fish gets better on its own, but they usually go downhill over time...sorry, hope I'm wrong.

Jay
 
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pixelhustler

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A short video under white light would help, but wrasse are prone to a neurological issue that nobody knows the cause of. The main symptom is a bent spine, swimming difficulty, but the fish will still feed, or at least try to. A number of causes have been proposed: damage when captured in a net, running into something in the tank, bacterial, viral or myxozoan infection. I've even heard nematode worms in the fish's brain. All of these are just guesses, nobody really knows the cause. The trouble is, that also means there is no known cure. In some cases, the fish gets better on its own, but they usually go downhill over time...sorry, hope I'm wrong.

Jay
It looks like you’re right unfortunately - the fish seems to have taken a turn over the past 2 days and now is swimming mostly vertically except when feeding, where he’s able to temporarily move horizontally to get food in its mouth. How should I assess whether or not I should euthanize? If it wasn’t eating I’d probably have already decided to do so, as it’s getting slowly dragged by the current while swimming vertically, but when I drop in food it’ll quickly reposition horizontally and eat. I’m attaching some photos, these are of it swimming against the current, when it swims towards the current the position is the same but angled forward
 

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Jay Hemdal

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It looks like you’re right unfortunately - the fish seems to have taken a turn over the past 2 days and now is swimming mostly vertically except when feeding, where he’s able to temporarily move horizontally to get food in its mouth. How should I assess whether or not I should euthanize? If it wasn’t eating I’d probably have already decided to do so, as it’s getting slowly dragged by the current while swimming vertically, but when I drop in food it’ll quickly reposition horizontally and eat. I’m attaching some photos, these are of it swimming against the current, when it swims towards the current the position is the same but angled forward
Darn, that is a classic case. I use the fact that these fish still have a feeding response to differentiate it from other diseases (where one of the first symptoms is the fish stop feeding).

I've only had a couple of cases of this in my care, and none of them got sent out for histopathology, so I just don't know what the cause could be.

Many people do end up euthanizing these fish....sorry.

Jay
 
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Darn, that is a classic case. I use the fact that these fish still have a feeding response to differentiate it from other diseases (where one of the first symptoms is the fish stop feeding).

I've only had a couple of cases of this in my care, and none of them got sent out for histopathology, so I just don't know what the cause could be.

Many people do end up euthanizing these fish....sorry.

Jay
Had to end up euthanizing it as it was unable to feed today. At least I learned something and know what to look for. Unfortunately I saw a couple of wrasses with the same issue at my LFS the other day, I’m not sure the owner is aware of this so I’ll let him know next time
 
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I would not worry about it. Fairy Wrasse of that group seem to carry the body like that often, especially when that are recently imported, thin and emaciated. This look is exaggerated by the lack of fat and tissue around the abdomen. Feed him well and in a few week he will look normal again. My Solon Fairy was angulated like that when I got him right out of the box but live a long normal life, and normal looking. I post a picture later when I get home
 

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It would be neat to send one of these down to Dr Ossiboff at the path lab at UFlorida. See if he is able to determine the cause.

Sorry - I missed your post from earlier in the year. Dr. Yanong at that lab is already looking into this. One set of results came back inconclusive, but did not seem to be either of the two highly suspected viral agents. The trouble is in getting good samples. They need to be from a public aquarium or a fish farm in Florida, the tissues need to be prepared properly, and the samples need to come from fish that are highly suspected of having this illness (there is still a lot of misinformation out there about this problem). Another public aquarium has sent samples out on their own, results are pending.

The full discussion is here:

Just a side note - there are still people out there denying this is a disease issue, that is is due to "injury". The same thing happened when we identified inter-cellular Uronema, everyone was saying that was due to injury. Turns out it wasn't. The jury is still out on this, but I strongly suspect there is a disease agent involved.


Jay
 
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pixelhustler

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Sorry - I missed your post from earlier in the year. Dr. Yanong at that lab is already looking into this. One set of results came back inconclusive, but did not seem to be either of the two highly suspected viral agents. The trouble is in getting good samples. They need to be from a public aquarium or a fish farm in Florida, the tissues need to be prepared properly, and the samples need to come from fish that are highly suspected of having this illness (there is still a lot of misinformation out there about this problem). Another public aquarium has sent samples out on their own, results are pending.

The full discussion is here:

Just a side note - there are still people out there denying this is a disease issue, that is is due to "injury". The same thing happened when we identified inter-cellular Uronema, everyone was saying that was due to injury. Turns out it wasn't. The jury is still out on this, but I strongly suspect there is a disease agent involved.


Jay
Very interesting - I have no doubt this is a disease just based on how fast and severe the decline was, and how often I see it at my LFS, which imports dozens of wrasses every week.

On the other hand, a healthy leopard wrasse I purchased developed an S-shaped, horizontally curved spine (think left right left) overnight shortly after I bought it. I’m guessing it swam into the glass. It didn’t hinder its ability to swim and straightened out almost 100% within a few weeks. Completely opposite of the wrasse above in every way.
 

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The soine curvature of your wrasse is normal. It have to do with the mail notrition of new import fish/wrasse. Here is the picture of my Solon wrasse when I first got him, and after he got fat and well
CDC3C6EC-E48B-4A21-8834-349185443B02.jpeg


solonfairy2019061602a-jpg.1470592
 
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pixelhustler

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The soine curvature of your wrasse is normal. It have to do with the mail notrition of new import fish/wrasse. Here is the picture of my Solon wrasse when I first got him, and after he got fat and well
CDC3C6EC-E48B-4A21-8834-349185443B02.jpeg


solonfairy2019061602a-jpg.1470592
As stated above, my wrasse degenerated over a few days until it could no longer swim had to be euthanized.
I do not think it has to with nutrition although I have had 2 new wrasses with slightly sagging spines recover. I feed well so nutrition definitely helped but, like Jay mentioned above, I think it has to do with a disease that doesn’t seem to be very contagious.
I have since paid attention to this symptom and I see it almost every week at my LFS with fresh imports (new wrasses every Monday) and by the weekend, some fish are already barely swimming straight. I haven’t seen it in leopard wrasses, mostly fairy wrasses.
Unlike other conditions, this doesn’t seem to spread to other wrasses in my LFS or in my tank, but I could be wrong.
I think there’s a point of no return for this disease, as I’ve had a couple of wrasses with a very slight curvature that fully straightened up.
 
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