Yellow tang problem. Velvet or what?

[kevsqn]

This is the timeline.
1. finish first round of 30 days coppersafe.
2. after about 5 days copper removal. I notice the tang is swimming against the flow again.
Also notice that the fins are being eaten?(something like the 1st pic below)(he's the only one the qt tank). Oddly, after re-dosing the copper again. The fins kinda healed?

3. I did freshwater dip for 5minutes. Nothing showed. Ive also done prazipro rounds before.
4. I dosed coppersafe again. Its been 12 days now. And its still swimming against flow sometimes. (Another thing i notice that when its around 6PM onwards, ive never seen him swimming against the flow, its only before that i see him swimming against the flow)
No heavy breathing. Eating healthy. No scratching. nearby tanks are at least 20feet away. No signs of any bacterial infection that i could see. Also,tested copper everyday. This time positive no cross contamination. I havent done water changes since i dosed copper again. Im also aware theres abit of HLLE going on.

So, my real question is. Is this normal that its already been 12 days and its still swimming against powerhead? Or Am i just overthinking? Could this just be the tang's odd behavior of swimming against the flow? Could this be other type of parasite besides velvet?

 

[Maritimer]

What's the level of coppersafe? Should be 1.5 - 2.0, with 2.0 offering a margin of safety. Are you using a copper test kit on a regular basis to ensure that it stays there?

You do have some HLLE going on there, but that may well be an entirely separate issue.

~Bruce

 

[kevsqn]

What's the level of coppersafe? Should be 1.5 - 2.0, with 2.0 offering a margin of safety. Are you using a copper test kit on a regular basis to ensure that it stays there?

You do have some HLLE going on there, but that may well be an entirely separate issue.

~Bruce

using API test kit to test coppersafe everyday. its ~2.0

 

[Maritimer]

Given that measurement, you certainly _shouldn't_ have any velvet remaining in that tank ... and yet . . .

Hoping @Humblefish can offer insights I can't.

~Bruce

 

[kevsqn]

double post

 

[kevsqn]

double post

 

[kevsqn]

Given that measurement, you certainly _shouldn't_ have any velvet remaining in that tank ... and yet . . .

Hoping @Humblefish can offer insights I can't.

~Bruce

Thanks. its not showing any sign of velvet right? at least from the exterior

 

[Brew12]

Thanks. its not showing any sign of velvet right? at least from the exterior

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time we have seen something like this. I believe @melypr1985 just had something similar on a Hippo tang. I believe she had to resort to CP to get things cleared up.

Just as a second check on copper readings do you know how many mL/g you ended up adding to get to 2.0ppm?

 

[kevsqn]

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time we have seen something like this. I believe @melypr1985 just had something similar on a Hippo tang. I believe she had to resort to CP to get things cleared up.

Just as a second check on copper readings do you know how many mL/g you ended up adding to get to 2.0ppm?

I didnt keep track. i just dosed and then tested

 

[Humblefish]

I would double check your Cu reading using another test kit (LFS perhaps?) Unforunately, the behavior I see in the video is very indicative of velvet.

As Brew pointed out, we have seen some evidence of "copper resistant parasites" on this forum. If true, it is likely being caused by LFS/wholesalers not treating properly by keeping fish in subtherapeutic copper. This would be akin to bacteria not being treated with the proper dose/duration of antibiotics. Eventually resistant strains aka super bugs are going to start popping up.

 

[kevsqn]

I would double check your Cu reading using another test kit (LFS perhaps?) Unforunately, the behavior I see in the video is very indicative of velvet.

As Brew pointed out, we have seen some evidence of "copper resistant parasites" on this forum. If true, it is likely being caused by LFS/wholesalers not treating properly by keeping fish in subtherapeutic copper. This would be akin to bacteria not being treated with the proper dose/duration of antibiotics. Eventually resistant strains aka super bugs are going to start popping up.

Im gonna test again with a new api copper test kit. Whats the best direction i should take now? should i try CP? is CP from nationalfishpharm good?

 

[Humblefish]

Im gonna test again with a new api copper test kit. Whats the best direction i should take now? should i try CP? is CP from nationalfishpharm good?

Unforutnately, a Rx from a veterinarian is necessary to ensure you are getting quality CP.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

 

[Brew12]

Im gonna test again with a new api copper test kit. Whats the best direction i should take now? should i try CP? is CP from nationalfishpharm good?

And can I suggest you take a gallon of saltwater and add 2mL of coppersafe? Then look at the sample and see if that is what you were maintaining. 2ppm of coppersafe works out to around 2.1mL/g

Lots of us have a hard time reading the API test kit. Dosing to 2.1mL/g gives you a reference sample to compare tests to.

 

[kevsqn]

Unforutnately, a Rx from a veterinarian is necessary to ensure you are getting quality CP.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

Im not sure if i can get an CP Rx here in the Philippines. Is it possible for someone to ship CP to me from the US? i would just have to pay them. If possible, do you of anyone?

 

[kevsqn]

And can I suggest you take a gallon of saltwater and add 2mL of coppersafe? Then look at the sample and see if that is what you were maintaining. 2ppm of coppersafe works out to around 2.1mL/g

Lots of us have a hard time reading the API test kit. Dosing to 2.1mL/g gives you a reference sample to compare tests to.

I did just that. And i think it yielded me at least at least 4ppm of coppersafe.(see first and second pic). Also used new API copper test kit to test.

3rd pic is the result of the qt tank the yellow is in which looks like around 2ppm right? This time new API TEST kit was also used.

Im really at lost right now. Should i just try cupramine?

 

[Brew12]

I did just that. And i think it yielded me at least at least 4ppm of coppersafe.(see first and second pic). Also used new API copper test kit to test.

3rd pic is the result of the qt tank the yellow is in which looks like around 2ppm right? This time new API TEST kit was also used.

Im really at lost right now. Should i just try cupramine?

I think that is your problem. 2.1mL/gallon of Coppersafe gets you right at 2ppm copper. I think you were misreading your test kit. What you think is 4ppm is actually 2ppm. It is likely that what you think is 2ppm is actually 1ppm which would explain why your treatment didn't work.

I did the exact same thing the first time I used Coppersafe. The test kit is very difficult for some of us to read correctly.

 

[kevsqn]

I think that is your problem. 2.1mL/gallon of Coppersafe gets you right at 2ppm copper. I think you were misreading your test kit. What you think is 4ppm is actually 2ppm. It is likely that what you think is 2ppm is actually 1ppm which would explain why your treatment didn't work.

I did the exact same thing the first time I used Coppersafe. The test kit is very difficult for some of us to read correctly.

Actually, i did dose 2.0mL/gallon , in the qt before this tank. and the clownfish as well as the achilles didnt make it. After dosing it 2.0mL/gallon, They just started breathing heavy and just staying in one spot. around maybe 12 hours later, they didnt make it. its in this link https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tang-has-ich-again.323530/

But base from the pic, doesnt it look just about right at 2.0ppm?

 

[Brew12]

Actually, i did dose 2.0mL/gallon , in the qt before this tank. and the clownfish as well as the achilles didnt make it. After dosing it 2.0mL/gallon, They just started breathing heavy and just staying in one spot. around maybe 12 hours later, they didnt make it. its in this link https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tang-has-ich-again.323530/

But base from the pic, doesnt it look just about right at 2.0ppm?

I'm a horrible judge of it. I see the same thing in your pictures that I see when I test. To me the water color looks orange compared to the tan color on the chart. My brain just can't process how I can make a good comparison when the colors are so different.

 

[kevsqn]

I'm a horrible judge of it. I see the same thing in your pictures that I see when I test. To me the water color looks orange compared to the tan color on the chart. My brain just can't process how I can make a good comparison when the colors are so different.

Im in the exact same boat as you are. If only i could just get CP here.

Any thoughts? @melypr1985 @Humblefish @4FordFamily

 

[4FordFamily]

I cannot tell, either from the photos.

I will say I kept my copper at 2-2.5PPM when using chelated copper for this very reason -- difficult to test with some kits.

Also, fish can show velvet symptoms for some time after eradication of the disease due to gill damage that has already been done (they swim in to flow to get oxygen through their gills artificially because they aren't working well enough on their own with the damage).

Also, HLLE is common for Zebrasoma tangs, the longer they're in copper.

It tends to reverse pretty well if they're not exposed more than 60-90 days and over the course of a few months in high quality water fed a high quality diet.