Yet another cycling question :)

monicalooze · Oct 30, 2020

Hello!

I did a ton of research before getting into this hobby, and I was soooo confident I understood everything, but as you might imagine, there's a gap between theory and practice.

I am doing a fishless cycle with Dr. Tim's and the ammonium chloride that comes with the bottle. Right now my nitrates and nitrites are increasing, but the ammonia is staying the same. I can say for sure that it is >2ppm based on the color of the water in the test, but the test only goes that high.

Does ammonia lag behind the other molecules? Or should I do a water change?

Specs:

20g Red Sea MAX Nano
Running a filter sock + return pump
20 lbs carib sea arag alive substrate
20 lbs real reef damp rock
Red Sea test kit

Current parameters (@ 96 hours of cycling)

Temp: 85 (Dr. Tim says to crank it up)
Salinity: 35.2ppt
Ammonia: >2ppm (no idea....by color it's maybe actually 4, but I'm not positive because the test only goes up to 2ppm)
Nitrite: 1ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm
pH is hard to know....it never looks like a color on the card, so I am waiting for a digital tester to come in the mail
Did NOT add more ammonia because it's high.

I know my ammonia and pH are both inaccurate due to poor tests/interpretation, so if those are both the issues, how would I rectify them?

Editing for clarity:

The cycle has been going for 96 hours.

Params through the days:

Day 0
Added 70 drops of ammonium chloride

After 24 hours
Nitrate: 1ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Ammonia: 2ppm
pH: 8ish?

After 48 hours
Nitrate:1.2ppm
Nitrite: .05ppm
Ammonia: >2ppm
pH: 8??
Added 70 drops ammonia per instructions

After 72 hours
Nitrate: 5ppm
Nitrite: .2ppm
Ammonia: >2ppm
pH: 8??

see above for current specs.

I can't tell if I'm doing this right

brandon429 · Oct 30, 2020

How many days all this been stewing

throw in one small pinch of fish food, Dr Reefs faster cycling trick

nice pattern finding in cycle reads, mis testing.

# of days in the presence of nitrate will specifically address a permissible start date even with test variance. The nitrate shows activity

ammonia will likely be more active day ten and beyond

The directions say it takes ten days. On day ten you could change out your water and begin, the filter bac will be stuck to rocks

per Dr Reefs bottle bac test thread, this one is ten days and fritz for example is adhered to surfaces in two days, under a similar feeding regimen youre doing. He tested common brands and found the permissible start date after a full water change for each brand.

ScubaFish802 · Oct 30, 2020

I would leave it as is and give it more time, adding fish food is just going to increase the amount of ammonia as it breaks down, no? The ammonium chloride should have the same effect and you could always continue to dose that if you did need to up ammonia levels

Fish_Sticks · Oct 30, 2020

You're essentially feeding the bacteria liquid ammonia to grow a strong and steady population. They will turn the ammonia into the nitrites and nitrates you are seeing, but at what rate, is anyone guess.

I'd suggest lowering the amount of ammonia youre feeding, at the moment. as the concentration you're seeing is working fine for the current number of bacteria you have grown.

Once that population rises higher and higher, consider increasing the ammonia ('fish food') amount.

Eventually you will grow as much as your rock will carry, and your tank can be considered newly cycled.

This same train of thought should carry over to your future strategy, as the ammonia will come from your fish food. You may consider buying more rock in an effort to house more bacteria, and therefore to increase the amount of fish, or stability, you have, if you see ammonia staying present for an extended period of time - assuming you're adding the amount of ammonia you will feed when your tank is stocked..

Edit - it's usually best to understock your tank with the amount of fish you can support.

One benefit to cycling with fish food, is you can somewhat predict how many fish your tank can support by guessing hiw many fish that serving of food will feed.

- hope that helps... patience is key - and goodluck!

brandon429 · Oct 30, 2020

No it was for carbon, Dr reef found

ammonia is lacking

together they sped up plating time in his thread

the handy thing about directions dates and nitrate, even if you are adding too much ammonia now the final water change reveals what’s stuck to the rocks. Already been tested for this brand. How wastewater reads ranges person to person, but not actual allowed start dates. If the bottle bac was doa, bad shipping etc, there’d be no nitrate. Once we can see the bottle bac was live, it’s directions work well for time frames but wastewater will test all over the place person to person. What we started doing was changing it all out on the start date, then it didn’t test so bad

Garf · Oct 30, 2020

Bacteria need a bit of phos also, I would add a bit of food personally.

monicalooze · Oct 30, 2020

Fish_Sticks said:
You're essentially feeding the bacteria liquid ammonia to grow a strong and steady population. They will turn the ammonia into the nitrites and nitrates you are seeing, but at what rate, is anyone guess.

I'd suggest lowering the amount of ammonia youre feeding, at the moment. as the concentration you're seeing is working fine for the current number of bacteria you have grown.

Once that population rises higher and higher, consider increasing the ammonia ('fish food') amount.

Eventually you will grow as much as your rock will carry, and your tank can be considered newly cycled.

This same train of thought should carry over to your future strategy, as the ammonia will come from your fish food. You may consider buying more rock in an effort to house more bacteria, and therefore to increase the amount of fish, or stability, you have, if you see ammonia staying present for an extended period of time - assuming you're adding the amount of ammonia you will feed when your tank is stocked..

Edit - it's usually best to understock your tank with the amount of fish you can support.

One benefit to cycling with fish food, is you can somewhat predict how many fish your tank can support by guessing hiw many fish that serving of food will feed.

- hope that helps... patience is key - and goodluck!

I'm currently planning two clowns and a watchman goby/pistol shrimp pair. + pom pom crab, cleaner shrimp, snails, mostly soft and LPS corals (eventually), and hopefully a maxima clam for fun and tuxedo urchin for algae control.

Fish_Sticks · Oct 30, 2020

monicalooze said:
I'm currently planning two clowns and a watchman goby/pistol shrimp pair. + pom pom crab, cleaner shrimp, snails, mostly soft and LPS corals (eventually), and hopefully a maxima clam for fun and tuxedo urchin for algae control.

You should have some good success with that fish set-up, although I have little to no experience with clams/urchins, and zero luck with shrimp (other than pistols). The goby and pistol shrimp are, by far, my favorite additions. They make a great team! I just have to remember to feed the pistol some nori every now and then.

Ronnell · Oct 30, 2020

monicalooze said:
Hello!

I did a ton of research before getting into this hobby, and I was soooo confident I understood everything, but as you might imagine, there's a gap between theory and practice.

I am doing a fishless cycle with Dr. Tim's and the ammonium chloride that comes with the bottle. Right now my nitrates and nitrites are increasing, but the ammonia is staying the same. I can say for sure that it is >2ppm based on the color of the water in the test, but the test only goes that high.

Does ammonia lag behind the other molecules? Or should I do a water change?

Specs:

20g Red Sea MAX Nano
Running a filter sock + return pump
20 lbs carib sea arag alive substrate
20 lbs real reef damp rock
Red Sea test kit

Current parameters (@ 96 hours of cycling)

Temp: 85 (Dr. Tim says to crank it up)
Salinity: 35.2ppt
Ammonia: >2ppm (no idea....by color it's maybe actually 4, but I'm not positive because the test only goes up to 2ppm)
Nitrite: 1ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm
pH is hard to know....it never looks like a color on the card, so I am waiting for a digital tester to come in the mail
Did NOT add more ammonia because it's high.

I know my ammonia and pH are both inaccurate due to poor tests/interpretation, so if those are both the issues, how would I rectify them?

Editing for clarity:

The cycle has been going for 96 hours.

Params through the days:

Day 0
Added 70 drops of ammonium chloride

After 24 hours
Nitrate: 1ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Ammonia: 2ppm
pH: 8ish?

After 48 hours
Nitrate:1.2ppm
Nitrite: .05ppm
Ammonia: >2ppm
pH: 8??
Added 70 drops ammonia per instructions

After 72 hours
Nitrate: 5ppm
Nitrite: .2ppm
Ammonia: >2ppm
pH: 8??

see above for current specs.

I can't tell if I'm doing this right

Hello there. Welcome to the hobby & R2R.
I was the same when I got started. I did my research 4 I EVEN mix up some salt. This what I did to my 65 gallon 50 lbs of LR & DR, lights off put a DARK bed sheet over it @ come back in 3 weeks. I did not put fish in mine 3 months AFTER IT WAS cycled. Money is VERY TIGHT with me, all i got in my tank is a clean up crew (that I need to replenish) & 2 Black Ice clownfish