Dburr1014
10K Club member
Things and problems come and go. For me, maintenance always is a forever, constant chore. I would rather sit back and watch the tank and I don't trust anyone with my tank maintenance. Woe is me. LOL
You Signed Up For This...What is the WORST part of reefing?
- POLL
- Thread starter AlyciaMarie
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Ron Reefman
Lets Go Snorkeling!
Reef Squad
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Article Contributor
Tampa Bay Reef Keepers
MAC of SW Florida
Having any kind of flood. Like a 435g system where the 180g tank has failure along the bottom seam at the back of the tank (up against the wall and with a huge rock structure full of coral stacked up against the back glass.
Tank maintenance here, specifically water changes. I ain't good with lifting much anymore.
jimfish98
Active Member
Hands down the costs. I have a 2000g pond that I brought in 10 fish from Japan, fed, fixed, etc last year and only spent 1/10th what I spent on the reef tanks with stocking, fish, equipment, etc. If my costs don't drop significantly this year, I am selling off coral and equipment and just going FOWLR.
Signalhead
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2017
- Messages
- 286
- Reaction score
- 508
Small children touching the tank
skey44
Well-Known Member
Once you taste success with acros and see them growing and coloring up it’s so cool though. My next tank will be sps only and primarily Acropora.
I voted fish death. Another one for me is natural disaster/loss of power. We were out of power for a week with Hurricane Helene and tending to the tank got old. I did make it through without any loss due to all the hard work and good fortune of temperatures being moderate… Acropora included
skey44
Well-Known Member
This hobby is based on water lol. But yes you have to be very mindful of the water! I’ve learned over the years how to perfectly fill and carry a bucket, also an expert at dumping a bucket into a toilet without spilling. I have a 1 gallon pitcher that also comes in handy to transfer water, mix medications, carry something dripping etc. then there’s my wife’s favorite tool, the fish tank towels. Recently she commented that most of the towels in the was were “fish tank towels” smh! Nice pumps with long hoses help (I recently got a utility pump off amazon added a long 3/4” hose and it’s the bees knees).
Also then there’s the making the water, testing the waterer… list goes on. Dang water
For me it's the setbacks like animal deaths. I think most people have an end point in mind when they start a tank and setbacks mean we have to spend time and money getting back where we were instead of advancing toward our end goal. Spending on this hobby, as noted, is already high, having to spend funds twice is just deflating.
skey44
Well-Known Member
Well said. I’ve had a couple of batches of fish not have great success in QT and the loss of life and money lost is very deflating.
Eric R.
Well-Known Member
“Toxicological studies with these compounds shows repeatedly low LD50 values in different mammals, revealing an acute toxic effect on several organs, as demonstrated by different routes of exposure. Bioassays tested for some marine invertebrates and evidences from environmental populations exposed to the toxins also give indications of the high impact that these compounds may have on natural food webs. The recognition of its wide distribution coupled with the poisoning effects that these toxins can have on animals and especially on humans have concerned the scientific community.”
Palytoxin and Analogs: Biological and Ecological Effects - PMC
Palytoxin (PTX) is a potent marine toxin that was originally found in soft corals from tropical areas of the Pacific Ocean. Soon after, its occurrence was observed in numerous other marine organisms from the same ecological region. More recently, ...pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
LD50 means lethal dose, 50%. This is the amount of a substance required to kill half of a tested population. Something having a low LD50 means that it's actually pretty commonly deadly for most of a population. Anecdotally, people do seem to have different levels of sensitivity, and repeated exposure may increase the reaction to the toxin, but I believe in sufficient amounts anyone would have a significant adverse reaction if exposed to palytoxin. So no, it's not an allergy either.
Gumbies R Us
God, Bouldering, and Reefing
I don't enjoy the whole process of doing a water change, haha.
I know all about how toxic palytoxin is and the dangers, but the fact remains that unless you are allergic to Palytoxin putting your hands into water that has Palys in it will not hurt you.“Toxicological studies with these compounds shows repeatedly low LD50 values in different mammals, revealing an acute toxic effect on several organs, as demonstrated by different routes of exposure. Bioassays tested for some marine invertebrates and evidences from environmental populations exposed to the toxins also give indications of the high impact that these compounds may have on natural food webs. The recognition of its wide distribution coupled with the poisoning effects that these toxins can have on animals and especially on humans have concerned the scientific community.”
Palytoxin and Analogs: Biological and Ecological Effects - PMC
Palytoxin (PTX) is a potent marine toxin that was originally found in soft corals from tropical areas of the Pacific Ocean. Soon after, its occurrence was observed in numerous other marine organisms from the same ecological region. More recently, ...
hoffmeyerz
Well-Known Member
Have you thought about running your system without water changes? I know it's a bit of a hot topic and I don't mean to kick something off but once I added coral my N & P numbers came into check so I stopped changes. I dose AFR so all my parameters are staying well put with no changes.
Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean it's "no maintenance" LOL
Eric R.
Well-Known Member
You are correct that most people will not be bothered simply by sticking their hands into a tank with palythoa in it. I've had palys in my tanks, and did put my hands into the tank without any problems. However, I got rid of the palys, I didn't want to risk them being a possible issue and there are many other things less toxic that look nice in an aquarium.
However (and maybe you think this is pedantic, but I think for people that don't know, it's an important distinction to make) palytoxins are not an allergy. Allergies involve an immune system response to something that most people are not bothered by. Palytoxin disrupts the function of sodium-potassium pumps, and sufficient exposure is toxic to humans. All humans. Although the amount may vary from person to person, it is still toxic to everyone at some point.
Other things, including Ostreopsis dinos, also produce palytoxins, so it's not like getting rid of palys completely eliminates your risk of exposure. And I'm not trying to make people panic. But I do want people to be aware of the possible risks and take reasonable precautions to avoid them.
Eric R.
Well-Known Member
More information: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0041010120300180
Palytoxin (PLTX) is a natural toxin firstly isolated and purified from corals belonging to the family Zoanthidae and the genus Palythoa (Moore and Scheuer, 1971). Nowadays this toxin is recognized as one of the most poisonous substances known to date. PLTX is responsible of causing human fatal intoxications associated with the consumption of contaminated crustaceans and fish such as crabs (Alcala et al., 1988), groupers (Taniyama et al., 2002), mackerel (Kodama et al., 1989) and parrotfish (Okano et al., 1998). Furthermore, toxic effects attributed to PLTX analogues have been described in individuals exposed via inhalation or skin contact to marine aerosols, in coincidence with blooms of the dinoflagellate Ostreopsis in the Mediterranean Sea (Patocka et al., 2018). In fact, acute human respiratory failure has been suspected after inhalation of PLTX (Thakur and Jha, 2016) and several cases required patient admission to an intensive care unit after inhalation or dermal exposure to the toxin (Murphy and Charlton, 2017). Palytoxin has also been linked to the occasional food intoxication known as clupeotoxism which is associated with the ingestion of sardines, anchovies and herrings, and it is an illness associated with high lethality (Onuma et al., 1999, Silva et al., 2015). This toxin is a large and very complex molecule with lipophilic and hydrophilic areas. This molecule is thought to possess the longest chain of continuous carbons known to date. The chemical structure of palytoxin (CAS Registry Number 77734-91-9) is C129H223N3O54 (M.W. 2680.148), in which 115 of the 129 carbons are in a continuous chain (Katikou and Vlamis, 2014).
During the last decades, benthic dinoflagellates of the genus Ostreopsis, usually detected in tropical areas, have expanded their distribution to temperate waters and were recently identified in some European countries such as France, Greece, Italy, Cyprus, Spain and Portugal (Accoroni et al., 2016, Aligizaki et al., 2008, Ciminiello et al., 2006, Del Favero et al., 2013, Fraga et al., 2017, Santos et al., 2019) causing human intoxications associated with the consumption of contaminated fish and crustaceans as well as to exposure to marine aerosols (Patocka et al., 2018, Pelin et al., 2016, Walsh et al., 2017) and even contact with corals in aquariums (Hoffmann et al., 2008, Tartaglione et al., 2016).
Palytoxin (PLTX) is a natural toxin firstly isolated and purified from corals belonging to the family Zoanthidae and the genus Palythoa (Moore and Scheuer, 1971). Nowadays this toxin is recognized as one of the most poisonous substances known to date. PLTX is responsible of causing human fatal intoxications associated with the consumption of contaminated crustaceans and fish such as crabs (Alcala et al., 1988), groupers (Taniyama et al., 2002), mackerel (Kodama et al., 1989) and parrotfish (Okano et al., 1998). Furthermore, toxic effects attributed to PLTX analogues have been described in individuals exposed via inhalation or skin contact to marine aerosols, in coincidence with blooms of the dinoflagellate Ostreopsis in the Mediterranean Sea (Patocka et al., 2018). In fact, acute human respiratory failure has been suspected after inhalation of PLTX (Thakur and Jha, 2016) and several cases required patient admission to an intensive care unit after inhalation or dermal exposure to the toxin (Murphy and Charlton, 2017). Palytoxin has also been linked to the occasional food intoxication known as clupeotoxism which is associated with the ingestion of sardines, anchovies and herrings, and it is an illness associated with high lethality (Onuma et al., 1999, Silva et al., 2015). This toxin is a large and very complex molecule with lipophilic and hydrophilic areas. This molecule is thought to possess the longest chain of continuous carbons known to date. The chemical structure of palytoxin (CAS Registry Number 77734-91-9) is C129H223N3O54 (M.W. 2680.148), in which 115 of the 129 carbons are in a continuous chain (Katikou and Vlamis, 2014).
During the last decades, benthic dinoflagellates of the genus Ostreopsis, usually detected in tropical areas, have expanded their distribution to temperate waters and were recently identified in some European countries such as France, Greece, Italy, Cyprus, Spain and Portugal (Accoroni et al., 2016, Aligizaki et al., 2008, Ciminiello et al., 2006, Del Favero et al., 2013, Fraga et al., 2017, Santos et al., 2019) causing human intoxications associated with the consumption of contaminated fish and crustaceans as well as to exposure to marine aerosols (Patocka et al., 2018, Pelin et al., 2016, Walsh et al., 2017) and even contact with corals in aquariums (Hoffmann et al., 2008, Tartaglione et al., 2016).
Cichlid Dad
5000 Club Member
Hospitality Award
Pacific Northwest Reefers
Rock Pool Reef Keepers
R2R Secret Santa 2023
My Tank Thread
My Aquarium Showcase
Trying to get a naughty fish out of the tank
Gumbies R Us
God, Bouldering, and Reefing
Yes! I usually try to do the "minimum" water change approach. The only reason I am doing them right now is to help with some of the GHA I have in my tank. AFR has been a life saver for us though!
sfin52
So many pedestrians so little time
And not coming down anytime soon
SO MUCH of one's physiology is run by Sodium/Potassium pumps. If those are interrupted, your in serious trouble.
Similar threads
-
- Poll
-
- Poll
