you wanted details, ok here you go.. apex heater problem need advice.

ddc0715

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so when I set up the power usage alarm for one of my heaters I followed the instructions and let the device be monitored for a minimum of 24 hours, it was more like 72 hours. 1-28-21 thru 1-31-21, I have been playing with the alarms off and on recently, because not knowing what I'm looking at, they got on my nerves and I turned them off. but turned them back on a few days ago or 2-28-21 to be exact


Capture a.JPG


When I first set up the power usage alarms I used the default values that the apex provided for this aqueon 300w heater, which was a min of 0 and a max of 203. According to the watts graph above, this would be correct and the on-screen instructions said that the apex would pick the best settings for me based on its monitoring of the power outlets pwr usage, so i trusted it / did not question it. But did find it odd that the max watts for a 300w heater were just 203 after being monitored for 72 hours.

On 3-2-21 I got several alarms that read.
2021-03-02 11:26:23 NEW-HEATER W is greater than 203 (320)
2021-03-02 11:27:42 NEW-HEATER W is greater than 203 (324)
2021-03-02 11:29:10 NEW-HEATER W is greater than 203 (321)


so I went into the power usage alarm settings to look at the max power settings for this outlet. it has changed from 203 to 501, I did not make this change.

Capture b.JPG


So next I went to back to the Watts graph for this heaters outlet (see above) and determined that this outlets power usage went from a steady "under 200w" from 1-28-21 to 2-23-21 in the beginning, to a steady "over 300" from 2-23-21 to 3-3-21. This is an approx. DOUBLE increase in power usage (160w avg, to now a 300w avg). So next I went to my power outlets settings it appears to be set as it should be.

Capture c.JPG


My next thought was to compare the on-off of the outlet to the DT temp probe. here is where I get confused. In my head, if the temp drops below 78 then the heater outlet powers/kicks and stays on until the Temp probe hits 79 and once at 79 degrees, the heater outlet powers/kicks or turns off correct? if this is correct then the next few images are very odd.
Capture d.JPG

Capture e.JPG

Capture f.JPG

Capture g.JPG

Capture h.JPG

Capture i.JPG

Capture j.JPG



I see the following in this power usage tank temp comparison.

1.At 10:20 tank temp is 78, with no power to the outlet of the heater
2.At 10:30 tank temp is 78, with no power to the outlet of the heater
3.At 10:40 tank temp is 77.9, heaters outlet powered on (ok seems right)
4. At 10:50 tank temp is 78, heaters outlet still on but at ½ power (why? Tank temp is 78)
5. At 11:00 tank temp is 78.1, heaters outlet still on but still at ½ power (why? temp is 78.1)
6. At 11:10 tank temp is 78.2, heaters outlet still on, and at full power (why? temp is 78.2)
7. At 11:20 the tank temp is 78.2, with no power to the heater's outlet (ok seems right)
8 At 11:30 tank temp is 78.3, with no power to the outlet of the heater (ok seems right) no picture inserted.
9. At 11:40 tank temp is 78.4, heaters outlet still on, and at full power (why? temp is 78.4)

Heres the throat punch-----IF THE POWER TO THIS OUTLET WAS OFF BETWEEN 11:20 AND 11:30, WHY DID I GET THE THREE ALARMS SAYING MY HEATER WAS ABOVE 300W DURING THIS TIME PERIOD?

I have since changed my display log from a 10min range to a two-minute range, after seeing these graphs up close, I now wonder about a few other things besides the three-alarm codes

1. if the tank temp hit the 78 marks why did my outlet read power usage of 166w? refer to 4-6 above

2. why did the apex automatically change my max power level in my power alarm setting from 203 to 501? did the apex adjust its self?

3. why did my power usage double/ increase (160w avg, to now a 300w avg)

4. is my 10-minute log interval making this picture fuzzy?

But in general can someone please tell me what’s happening here. this is as much detail as I can put together on this issue. as of today, these alarms have not returned.
 
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TexanCanuck

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Hey there. Not sure I can offer much insight into questions (1) through (3), but I definitely think part of the problem is the log interval.

On my 130g DT, I set the thresholds on my main (200W) heater much more closely - ON at 78, OFF at 78.2. (I also have an auxiliary heater @ 300W that comes on at 77.9)

Even though Neptune does not recommend setting the range this tight, I find the heater does not cycle that frequently ... see below.

Screen Shot 2021-03-03 at 7.31.16 PM.png


(Ignore the peak @ 8am ... that's my furnace coming on in the living room and blowing directly on the DT!)

Also, if I look at the power consumption chart, it fluctuates a little bit but pretty close to 200W ... so I agree it doesn't make sense to see two different power levels for your heater.

A couple of thoughts:

1) Change the polling interval to 1min for 24 hours and repeat the two charts and see if that makes a difference.

2) Are you also using the thermostat on the heater itself? If so, I would recommend setting the thermostat on the heater HIGHER than what you set in your Apex. This makes sure that the chart you see truly is based on when you Apex turns it on, and gives you a back-up to turn your heater OFF if the Apex fails in the ON position.

Anyway ... I agree that what you are seeing doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 
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ddc0715

ddc0715

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Really ONE person? I bet if I just asked what's the best t5 bulb to buy or should i qt my fish the thread would blow up. , but ask a complex question and crickets.;Joyful:):cool::)
 

piranhaman00

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I didnt read but never plug heater directly into apex outlet. :)
 
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ddc0715

ddc0715

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Why is that? Research says nothing about the harms of this. Can you explain please.
 

piranhaman00

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Why is that? Research says nothing about the harms of this. Can you explain please.

The harm of this is posted everywhere, BRS did a video on it.

Heaters turn on and off frequently during the day, especially if you have tight temp windows and small water volume. BRS test showed like 100s if not 1000s times per day. That destroys the relay in the expensive EB832 (which I will add, we are finding out are built poorly which means we do not want them to work too hard ;) ) .

Plug a different controller, I recommend BayIte into the apex and your heater into the bayite. Saves the EB832 from having to do anything unless there is an emergency or failure.
 

TexanCanuck

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Hmm ... that's not the way I interpreted the BRS video.

It was my understanding that they were trying to advocate (A) don't buy cheap heaters, (B) using sensible limits (i.e. don't set the range 0.1 degrees), (C) that you size the heater for the tank appropriately (i.e. don't over-size it ... buy two heaters that are ~75% of what you need), and (D) that you set the heaters' built-in thermostat HIGHER than what you set in your Apex so that you use the relay inside the EB832 instead of the built-in thermostat in the heater.

As shown above, by following these guidelines, my heaters only turn on about once every other hour and stay on for almost an hour (so switching on and off 12 times a day).

I have not heard of reliability problems with the EB832. Personally, I have been using it to drive my heater since it was released and have not had a problem (I know, that's just a single example).

Anyway ... that's just one person's experience. I'm sure there are lots of others!
 

TexanCanuck

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OP ... after changing the log interval and re-running the charts, did you notice a change in the behavior? Have you tried making sure the heater's thermostat is et HIGHER than the set point you use in your Apex?
 

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